can any of the members help me, after reading about J G's trouble with water in the fuel i checked my two tanks and found a small amount of water in each is there a way of preventing this from happening???????????

You can leave your tanks full but I dont like doing so.
It's bad enough on a alloy boat let alone a plastic one by that I mean come summer & the hot days your fuel will want to escape due to the heat a few times ages ago I sat & watched fuel come pissing out of my breathers when I had full tanks, didn't like that @ all fuel around the boat to dangerous so I stoped leaving my tanks full.

Not alot you can do to stop the condensation but you can fit water seperators to your fuel system they were the 1st things I looked @ when motors cut out & sure enough full of water didn't check them when I started the motors they kicked over 1st turn of the keys as there was good fuel in the lines & injection system but when that run out the water got pushed in & you cant compress water.

Still haven't drained water from that bad tank was going to do it 2day but had alot of running around to do & it was getting near dark when I got around to the boat a bit of a bummer cause I wanted to get out after the YFT tomorro.

They have to wait cause what I want to do is permanently mount a electric fuel pump in the boat I have the pump reason for this is if I ever cop water like last time again I can flick the switch pump out the water till fuel starts to feed back into bowl

Cleaned out the tank with water in it today wouldn've already have drained about a litre & a 1/2 last week on the water & another 1.5 litres came out today took a pic just to show those not aware how the water sits on bottom & fuel floats on top

But did you find the leak mate?

Fed there's no leak

But I'll tell you what I wont have any probs draining water out of tanks if they ever cop water again, came up with a spoofy idea drilled & tapped bottom of seperators & screwed a ball valve into it, then screwed a 5/16 barb into the ball valve to which I can attach the full pump @ any given time.

Originally I was going to use the spare inlet on the filter but after a bit of thought saw that was not such a crash hoy idea cause if there was water in the seperator it would remain there , pumping from yje bottom gets rid of the water 1st

Water in the fuel from the servo just doesn't make sense, if that was the case then you should have got a tank full of water or none at all.
The chances of getting just a couple of litres of water would be enormous knowing that petrol floats on water.
No way you got a couple of litres of condensation either.
Go and fix your leak mate. LOL!

they reckon you can put metho in your cars tank and it stops water ,or you can get stuff for motor bike tanks that lines the inside of the tank ,i think its a rubber or plastic that sticks to the tank and stopps them from rusting so ide say that it stops water as well

I know that bloody Fed is Gee'n me up but for the rest of.
1st of all if a swervo's tanks are low you will be buying water their tanks fill you up from the top & not the bottom they have some sort of floating pickup but if their tanks do run low then you will be buying water.

Some mates of mine filled up their shark cat @ one servo years ago & I had to tow them back to ramp we ended up pumping well over 200 litres of water out of their tanks.

Now back to my water prob well I've got stainless steel tanks under floor & believe they're more septable to condensation than alloy tanks never had a prob when I had the alloy tank underfloor but @ one stage I did have 2 stainless steel Above floor tanks on the boat & recall on a few occasions copping heaps of water in those but being above floor made it very easy to drain the water out all I had to do was take the clamp off the fuel plug & the water would flow out.

Getting back to leaks !

If I or anyone else had a leak then you'd smell the petrol such was not the case with me but have to admit 4 litres was alot of water.



Yep metho will evaporate the water but I dont like the idea of putting metho in my fuel back in the old days I had a mate who used to metho inject his torana XU1 but cant recall to much about it

Sure, that sounds like a servo problem.

When I say leaks I mean a leak high up in your tank that allows water to get in, probably around the filler cap/hose or around your breather so you wouldn't expect to smell it anyway.

Breathers are situated on transom & the water would have to travel up hill 5 meters to get into the tank thats impossible.
Already said fillers are on the gunnels & that they are raised cap screw over the top of them & a O-Ring ensures no water gets in that way so thats impossible as well

Any More Suggestions ?

Ed I basically built that boat & know all the inns & outs so take my word on it when I say water couldn't have possibly gotten into the tank/s unless it came from the servo it it was condensation

You got a hose between the filler point and the tank held on with a hose clamp?
What's your o ring like?
Not quite sure what you mean by "raised cap screw over the top of them".

ED when I rebuilt the boat I did a neat job I hate loose ends & eyesores everything has a place to be put away & I spit the dummy if people leave things lying around.

these are my fuel fillers in order for water to get in the water has to sneak under cap force it's way up about 10 mm to get into the hose a bit hard when it's also got to navigate the O-Ring under the cap.

I have no hope clamps exposed all the hoses & clamps are concealed behind a panel & not even the gernie under pressure could throw water onto them add to that the boat is always parked with nose up so if it rains all water drains to the rear

Can water get between the deck and the filler fitting, did you form a complete silicon seal under the fitting at installation?
If not it may be running from there, down to the outer side of the filler spigot and laying in the area where your flexible hose isn't clamped on tight enough.

How's your ring??? LOL!

Poly, are your tanks built in, is your boat stored under cover?

Fed no the tanks are not built in but are stored in the two 70lt boxes at the back of the boat well protected from spray and yes it is stored under cover

Geez Fed you dont want to believe in condensation do you ??

Have you ever owned a air compressor ??

What happens if you dont bleed the tank ??

You Get Bloody Water Coming Out Of Your Airlines Dont You

I've owned a few compressors but they're not really a valid comparison.
It's not that I don't want to believe in condensation but 3 litres in a 150 litre? tank is a bit hard to swallow.
BTW, why don't you pour off the fuel in that jar & taste the water just in case it's salty.
Could you be pushing water up your breather pipe when you launch the boat?
How's your ring?


How much water Poly, I think I'd tip it out, give the empty tank a rinse with a little metho & start again keeping a careful eye on it.

You must think I'm silly Fed ?

Tasting the water was the 1st thing I did & it was NOT SALTY

The difference between a air compressopr tank & a fuel tank is simple air compressor tanks are less likely to condensate the air & turnit into water simply because they are sealed.

Both work on the same principal HEAT is what turn air into water, you leave your compressor tank full of air & dont intoduce new air you wont get anywhere as much water have a small leak in your airline system then see how much water is in the tank.

One think I noticed back when I had the big compressor running the factory on those really hot days we'd have to bleed the water out of the system up to 3 or 5 times a day.

Now last time I used my boat was 6 weeks prior to last weekend alluminium is one of those materials which can really retain heat ever stood on metal bare footed when it's been out in the sun ??????

Well to give you another example we used alluminium plate as chill bars when Tig Welding Stainless is absorbs most of the heat which stops distortion in the the stainless not only that it retains the heat as well for long periods of time it'salso the reason why Alloy is used in cooking pot & pan the better quality ones these days are stainless but have a copper base.

Now picture my hull all alloy with a sealed floor you've got one big baking chamber when the sun is out my tanks are under floor in that chamber so what happens to the air in the tanks ????

Thats not a smart way to start your post you could get some Honest responses

this may be a slight change of topic but i thought id add it in here,

another bad bad thing to do is fill ur boat up or even your car while a fuel tanker is filling up the storage tanks at a fuel station as it mixes up all the crappy stuff at the bottom of the tanks and the water as well,

I may fool around & act silly SUMO but when it comes down to the nitty gritty & applying logic there's not to many better than the Jumpus I've generally got a reply for everything

There you go JUMPUS, you have been listening and learning.

Have a read Jumpy.
Applied Logic

How's your ring?
What is the height of your breather compared to the height where it enters your fuel tank?
Do you get water in both tanks or only one?
How well is is your deck filler sealed to the deck?

If you can't find a leak anywhere then we should firebomb the servo for selling water as fuel.

hmm, im of the idea that the water came from the servo, every sercie stations fuel storage tanks underground have got water in them, and if they say they dont then they are flat out lying, i have always said and always will say be very carefull where you buy your fuel from, and thanks to caltex for the discount fuel ouchers im affraid its just gong to get worse, but thats another topic for the future ,

Well what can I say Ed ?

Except that guy who wrote that crap David Pascoe is a Big Moron

The internet is full of gooses like him voicing their opinion & I only skimed what he had to say cause it was giving me diareah.

I'll tell AGAIN there is no possible way water could've gotten into the tank on it's own accord it was either pumped from the bowser or it's condensation.

I've already stated I have a sealed floor in my boat & alloy retains heat very well now let mme ask you a simple question

What happens if you have say a air conditioned room with a large window & all of a sudden a heat wave comes through your glass is single sheet not vacum sealed twin glazed.

Will you or wont you see condensation running down the glass ???

Mate I built commercial refrigeration for a living & know more about condensation than than twit David Pascoe

you have had Alot of jobs in your many years jumpy.... what else have you done!?!?

(im not doubting you here, its obvious that you have had alot of experiance in many things simply by the work you do on your own boats and home)

Back on topic, A friend of mine drives fuel tankers, has done for many years, he might be able to shed a bit of light on th topic, as could our resident chemists on site. I might put this to them and see what they come up with.

That would be good if you can get one of those chemists RDNR, I don't think Jumpy will ever believe he has got it wrong.
I'll say it again, to condense a gas into a liquid you COOL it.
Air conditioners, refrigeration,.... the gas is COOLED in a condensor to change it into a liquid.

A simple test, pull a stubbie out of the fridge and watch the water condense on the outside of the bottle.

I've never said I don't believe in condensation inside fuel tanks, it's the 3 litres of water that condensed out of a 150 litre tank that I can't swallow.

Ed I dont think you've read anything I've said or you haven't understood it ??

I'll run throught it again

Originally I said that I thought the water came from the servo @ that time I'd drain around 1.5 litres out maybe 2 & that was done on the day the motors stopped out on the water I gave up after that cause I didn't know how much more was in there & just ran the freshly filled tank.

Last Sunday I finally got around to draining the remaining water out as per pic theres around 2 litres of water in that jar so total we're talking around 4 litres

Mind you I never ever claimed all that water was condensation & still believe it came from the servo it was STEVE.P who said it couldn't have come from the servo not me.

I merely resposded to your claims that you cant get water in your tank via condensation & gave you examples of how H2O can tun into water after all thats what it is water ! & certain temperature conditions yes H2O will turn into water & since water in liquid forn is heavier than air it will sink to the bottom of the tank.

Like I said on numerous occaions there is no possible way water can get into my tanks via rain etc you can come down & have a look for yourself if you dont believe me



Thats exactly what I've been trying to tell you heat against cold will cause condensation & it can occur inside the tank my hull is sealed & can get pretty hot in there I always leave the bung plug out to air the hull same can be said about the fuel tank breather lets the tank release pressure & thats why I never leave tanks full I 've fuel pissing out of the breather on a hot day with full tanks.

Still dont & wont know how much fuel is in that tank till I fill up next time I'm sure there's over 100 litres in there now if had a few really hot days & that fuel level rose up near the breather outlet aren't you compressing the air in the tank ??????????????????????

Just to be clear...

1) You cannot condense 3-4 litres of water from 150 litres of air as that would make 150 litres of air weigh 3-4 kilograms.
2) The chances of getting 3-4 litres of water from the servo would be very small to say the least.
I'd be interested to know exactly how the fuel is picked up in the servo tanks...anyone?
3) If you had 3-4 litres of water in your tank then go and figure out where the leak is.

I beleive tanks at petrol stations generally pickup from a floating pickup on the surface level in the tank?

Jumpas, what if you used som kind of water seperator on th breather? im trying to think how to explain what i mean, Umm, Some kind of filter to stop the moisture coming into the tank as it breaths?

Like some people run on the diff breathers on 4x4's?

Ummm, ill keep thinking and get back to ya

May I add, the best way to avoid condensation in the tanks is to keep them full..

Water gets into your gasoline via condensation. That condensation might happen within your car tank or within the tank at your gas station or even from the tanker that brings the water to the gas station.
Condensation forms when warm moist air is cooled down. For example, when you drive your car on a warm moist day, then the warm air is sucked into your gas tank as your car uses gas. Then at night when the car cools off, if the temperature drops below the dew point of the air in the tank, then water will condense from the air into the tank, hence into the gasoline.
This same mechanism accounts for water in the fuel tanks at the gas station or tanker truck.
By the way, it is a bigger problem for airplanes. Also for an airplane water commonly gets into the fuel tank via rain water that leaks into the tank around loose fitting fuel caps.
For your curiousity, the density of water is much greater than that of airplane fuel. So everytime before you fly a plane you check for water in the tank by draining fuel/water from a valve at the bottom of the tank.

Not even going to bother replying to Fed's theory about a leak cause there isn't one

Nor his other theory that you candense 3 - 4 litre of water because you can.

Ed if you choose not to believe in condensation thats fine with me but I recall back @ SF you were inquiring how water got into your fuel tank maybe you should check for leaks

Rum you hit the nail on the head & it's what I've been saying all along condensation only occurs with temperature change wont just happen like that in my case the boat hadn't been used for some time & who knows when I actually filled up that tank last with these 4 Strokes they use bugger all fuel & I could get up to 10 + trips out of one tank if I'm only fishing in the Bay or local.



Depends on which airplane your refering to the turbine engine jets use a kerosine mix not petrol like we do & yes they would be subject to a hell of alot more condensation temperatures up there drop well below freezing point in order for controls not to freeze up heaters are used to thaw out the ice

there not my words, but ill happily take credit, Its off one of the Fuel company pages.

I believe in condensation it's just that I don't believe it's causing your problem because 3-4 litres is too much.
My fuel problem was stale fuel not water in the fuel no water was found when I drained the tank.

One thing I did find though was that lifting the front of the trailer/boat up as high as it would go enabled me to drain an extra 5 or so litres out of the tank which is not normally retrievable under normal operating attitudes.
That gives me a huge water trap in the bottom of my tank so that's a good thing.

Are we having fun yet?

OK I'll see if I can convince you one last time this is fair dinkum & I'm not pulling your leg either.

Going back prob 7 years now same boat sat idle @ my workshop for about 2 1/2 yearss mind you it was inside & out of any rain I mentioned them earlier back then I had 2 above floor tanks each held approx 130 litres they were made out of stainless.

I also had one underfloor which held 140 litres & another which held 100 litres reason for so muchfuel was back then I used to fish the Canyons off Pt Stevens & it's a bloody long way out esp back then with the 2 strokes they chewed the fuel on a flat day with the hammers all the way down.

Anyways the reason the boat sat there unused for so long was because back then I had the big moored boat, one day I decided to take it out for a run the above floor tanks would've been about over 1/2 full got to the ramp & they wouldn't start quick check found water in fuel to be the prob bled the carbs & it was easy to drain the water from the tanks being above floor just had to undo the clamp holding fuel fitting to hose & with the boat using the angle of the ramp it just gravity drained out.

Each tank had approx 15 litres of water in it filled nearly 2 10 litre bucked out of each tank

It probably rained before you put the boat under cover for 2½ years, or you used the same servo.

You cannot wring 15 litres of water from 130 litres of air!

If it was possible to do that then we could use your tanks instead of building a desalination plant.

yes u can fed if like most most boat owners it sits idle for a wile it builds condensation up to the point of trouble and in the masters case he has been working on that rebuild for so long he could swim in condensation for life so remember if u are not using them fill them.
it is a shame the over flow from the tank will stain the paint on alloy boats but that is the price u must pay for geting second best.

Dear Mr Fed

Obviously my attempts to convince you that condensation does occur in fuel tanks has fallen on death ears even with the assistance of Professor Rumpy Dust N Ruckus who's valliant attempts to collect reliable information & data again fell on death ears instead you chose to take the word of a unreliable source some Dingaling called David Pascoe who most likely didn't even make it past primary school.

Unlike myself whom was educated @ The University of Beijing under the guidance of Professor I Te Chu a world renouned figure in condensation reseach, hence I came to the conclusion that you could only be one of those terrorist doodies so I ran your description through interpol & was surprised nothing came up.

At a loss as to your motives it then occured to me that you're one of those Greenies & I can only assumed your sole purpose in this thread is to convince fishermen it is safe to assume condensation dosen't happen &^ it is completely safe to run the motors on water.

But the peeps here aren't that silly & they know better, by the way that hole you are digging yourself into can only lead to one place ?

China

Where I'm pretty certain Professor I Te Chu will be on hand to greet you & give you a ride down to Tiananmen Square where some tanks will be on hand to give you a 21 gun salute

What part of that don't you understand?

I'm going to Bunnings today to buy a bigger shovel.... I'll be back.

Are we having fun yet?

If you blokes could just put all this effort into making outboards run on water we would all be able to go fishing anytime without spending money on fuel. and I will give you a thousand dollars to convert my engine, you will not only get Wealthy! you could be very Wise.

well well well,

isnt this an interesting thread, i reckon we should all agree to disagree on this matter,

personally i believe there are only 2 ways for water to get into a fuel tank ,

1st way , there would have to be a leak in the fuel tank for water to enter the tank

2nd way, and i believe this is to more likely way, water would have to enter the tank thru being mixed up with fuel from the service station, every fuel station has water in there tanks,

lets agree to disagree

There is another answer.... CONDENSATION!
But only if Jumpy's fuel tank holds 100,000 litres.
Read it and weep.

there could be a 3rd way hustler . mayby fed took a leak in them
And the mini series continues tomorow ,

Will Fed agree or disagree, :huh: Can JG recover after all it was browny colour liquid

Will FED agree to a urine sample , :o

this is C D S , tune in next time

:mellow: :huh: :o

you got to remember fed, that it didnt do the 3 litres overnight.. it had a few weeks to do it and each day the the tank would expand in the heat, sucking in the air, which then cooled and put a small amount of water in, the next day the same thing and so on, so over time its possable for this amount of water to get in.. Another solution might be to close the breather (plastic tank caps normally have a screw that you can close) however you run the risk of stressing the tank as it expands and compresses in the heat/cool..

Even if conditions were perfect for condensation every night JG would have to have 1000 x 100 Litre air changes to get his 3 litres, that's why combined with pressure his air compressor condenses so much when it's continually running, it has a continuous supply of moisture laden air.
Remember an 'average' compressor will pump maybe 20,000 Litres per hour x 8 hours = 160,000 Litres which could result in 4-5 Litres of condensation inside the compressor tank.
It's good to see you questioning things though RDNR, Jumpy needs to realise we are only trying to help him.

Yea, i must say, im no expert on i at all... just trying to look from both sides...

It is definatly making for a good topic though...

Why Do You Think I Seem To Argue With Everyone ???

Nothing wrong with disagreeing with peeps see what's happened here if everyone agree's with one another all the time then topics die

OK one more time for Fed

Now Fed do you agree that water will settle @ the bottom of the tank ???
When it does this does it make way for new condensation to occur ????
Over a period of time in my case a couple of months why cant 3 - 4 litres accumilate in the take bear in mind we had alot of rain hence there was alot of moisture in the air.

Getting back to my boat went out for a fish yesterday & filled up both tanks earlier I mentioned I had no idea how much fuel was actually in the tank which gave me grief.

Well turns out there was just over 110 litres in there so it was 2/3's full I did cop a touch more water in the seperators yesterday but that could've been because I didn't change the filters they can hold a fair bit.

Other than that the new mods to the seperators worked a charm just a flick of the valve & the water was gone

Bear in mind guys I've owned this boat well over 15 years know it inside out & in all that time only on one other occasion did I get water in the fuel & as like this time it was in the stainless steel tanks never ever had a prob with the alloy tanks that were in the boat from day one or the other alloy tank which I built starting to Q if it was a wise idea to have made the new tanks out of S/S

Yes, I've never disputed that.

No, you have to get 'new' air with 'new' water content in it.

Because the water content from say 100 Litres of air is only 2-3 grams (a tiny amount), you would then have to replace the 100 Litres of air with 'new' air and condense again..... every night.... in perfect condensation conditions....
for 1000 nights to get 2-3 Litres of water.
It's just not feasible to be condensation in that quantity.

I was giving you as much leeway as I could so I was working on your tank being 1/3 full, but because it was 2/3 full then all the previous numbers need to be doubled as the air capacity of your tank just halved to just 50 Litres instead of the 100 Litres I've been allowing for.

If condensation was happening to the degree you're talking about then half the cars in the World would be stopping from it. I can't say I've ever heard of a car suffering from condensation in a fuel tank yet it should be more common than flat tyres according to your boat tank.

Dosen't that occur naturally ?? all you need is a bit of a hot hot day & the fuel inside your tank will expand & when it settles back down again say when it cools down of a nightime fresh air is sucked back into the tank via the breather bear in mind also depending on the day dew occurs @ that time of the day as well.
After all that is the whole purpose of the breather to relieve pressure by the way my breathers are 1" in dia, if you dont follow what I've just said go get yourself a container fill it with fuel & seal it then see what happens to the container shape.



Think I answered that in last paragraph, you seem to think it's the same air in the tank constantley which is not the case



Again you're working on the assumption that it's the same stale air in the tank @ all times & thats not the case as in the case of the tyres which have a valve to keep same air in @ all times.

Fed try looking @ the obvious theory that breathers allow air to enter & leave tank @ will