hello fellow fishos,

took my boat out last week for a run, had a few problems starting it, but after got it started it ran like a dream,

the mechanic took a look at it and said that it has sticky needle and seed... and it should cost about $250 to fix.... is there anything i can do myself to fix it ?? or what ?

as they fuel line bubble isnt staying hard....

i have got a spare set of carby's for it... would or is it a big job to change the carby's over ?

Get a new mechanic.

The needle & seat is only a tiny valve that opens & closes via the float in the carby bowl, it's all designed to keep the fuel level in the carby bowl at a constant height much like a toilet cistern.

From what you described the problem won't be caused by your needle & seat sticking.

Describe your starting procedure and we can go from there.

yeah i agree with fed ,,if your handy you can just buy a new needle and seat and install them yourself,i wouldnt just change the other carby over it may be worse ,,,without seeing the engine you may have to buy a new gasket that goes between the carby and head ,but they should be cheap ,you could make a new gasket as well yourself ,,,jas

Go down to super cheap or similar and buy a can of carby cleaner. Around $15.
Take off cowling of motor and remove air filters from carbys, put muffs on
or place motor in test bucket ( want of better word ) and start and run motor at fast idle
squirt some carby cleaner into each carby, run motor at around 1/4 throttle or full warm up
for about 20 seconds then put into gear ( ensuring prop is clear ) and rev engine around 1/2
throttle while squirting carby cleaner into carbys.
Then while continuing squirting the cleaner into carbys rev motor up and down till about 3/4 throttle
do this for a further 10 seconds or so while squirting heaps of carby cleaner into the carbys.

This is what your mechanic would have done for his charge he told you, so you have done what
he would have done for the price of the can of Carby cleaner.

Your carbys should now be free of all gunk .
It's not a bad idea to do this every season at least once, specially if mixing oil in it yourself in the fuel tank
type fuel.

I'm speechless.

thats good too nimrod ,but the needle and seat may be worn out ,if so no amount of carb cleaner will fix that,and that will only clean out the throats of the carbs not the actual fuel bowls ,where the needle and seat are ,if the motors been sitting and had fuel in the bowl after a while they get a waxey buildup and this may make the needle and seat stick too ,,jas

Carby cleaner may do the job but think there is a better product avail

It's called Brake Kleen

Stuff will remove anything if your prob is just built up oil residue sticking the needle



You're very vague like most people when describing

Dont know your mech from a bar of soap wot exactly is he going to do to the carby & is that price to service all of them if ewe have more than wun

I guess $250 isn't too bad to remove, strip, clean, reassemble with any new parts required then refit & adjust some carbys but I don't think a stuck needle & seat is the problem.

Remember it ran like a clock after you got it started.

Your primer bulb should pump up firm but after the motor is running they always go a little softer.

ok when i took it down to the ramp at revesby and put it in the water, put the choke up tried to start it, it started then stopped, pumped the bubble again and t did the same thing,

i spent about 30 mins trying to start it, when i noticed that there was another boat next to me with a boat mechanic working on the outboard on that,

when he finished with that i got him to take a look at mine, he tapped the top of it just above the carby's with a hammer and when starting it he kept pumping the fuel bubble,

he said it was a sticky needle and seed and i asked how much to fix it and he said about $250......

so we turned it off, and when to start it again..... wouldnt start so we pumped the fuel line bubble and it started...

once the motor warmed up i turned it off again and it started first go, the mechanic that looked at it wasnt the outboard mechanic that normally works on my boats he just happened to be there at the time,

while the engine was running i noticed that the fuel line bubble wasnt staying very hard at all.... ie : not getting enought fuel......

this is really annoying as this is the only thing wrong with an otherwise great little engine.......

so ma question is is it a needle and seed issue ??

That would be the fast idle lever.
You should have a seperate choke, usually depressing the starter key.

Tapping the top of the carby near the fuel entry is only to dislodge a bit of crap that is holding the needle & seat open and causing flooding which is the opposite of what you had.

Go and find what actuates your choke & use it in conjunction with your fast idle lever.
Cold 2 strokes are hard to start & keep running without a choke.

PS: Make sure your tank breather is not partially blocked or closed.

my choke is a manual choke fed, so ya need to use the choke lever as well as the fast idle lever,

ive always had 2 strokes on ma boats for the last 8 years, there a major pain in the butt to start when there cold

and ive got my tank breather always open to allow for any vapour build up,

i started it up again yesturday and i had to keep pressing the fuel line bubble to keep the motor running,

ive got some carby cleaner in the garage so on sunday im going to spray some carby cleaner into the carby and see how that goes,

its a pain in the butt cause i dont think its a major problem, if the carby cleaner doesnt work then il get ma mechanic out to fix it,

Last time you used it you said it ran well all day after getting it started but now you need to keep squeezing the primer bulb to keep it running.

Is this something that has changed since last time or did it all lose something in the translation?

Needing to pump the primer bulb would point towards the fuel pump not working, blocked breather, air leaks in fuel line, blockage in fuel line or even a blocked up fuel filter.

At idle it should run for a couple of minutes on what fuel is in the fuel bowl.

You could pull off the fuel line after the fuel pump then crank it over to see if it's pumping fuel.

This is best done with the kill switch activated so it doesn't start up on you and don't use a lighter to get a better view of the fuel coming out etc.
Try and catch it in a cup and if you set fire to yourself or your motor don't call me.
Let us know if you find anything, good luck.

nothing has changed since that time it ran like a dream,

ive only just bought new fuel line and connections for it... thinking that may be the problem...

it may be a blocked fuel filter, because with the cow off the fuel goes into a semi clear little canister/bowl and you can se the fuel in that drop...

now you have me tinking it may be a blocked fuel filter or pump.........

If you pump the fuel bulb up until it's firm then start the motor does it run OK for a minute or two then runs out of fuel?

If you have changed some fuel lines make sure the arrow on the primer bulb is pointing in the right direction of fuel flow and pointing upwards as well.

I think the quickest way to see if it's pumping fuel is to disconnect the line between the pump & the carbies then crank it over. (Don't forget the kill switch)

Fed dont start up with nonsense in regards to breathers nothing to do with hustlers prob



Not really an issue Benny, wun of my primer bulbs does exactly that but I'm still getting fuel through the system
Your motor has got a mechanical fuel pump, once motor starts cranking pump starts working & as long as there's fuel in the carbs motor will kick over.

2 strokes are a pain in the arse to initially crank over

Your prob may not even be the needle sticking, if carb is gunked up the reed valve may have been stuck

It would pay to get carb / 's overhauled

Just covering all the bases Jumpy, are you on drugs, if you're not then you should be.
You've obviously never had a problem with breathers other than rain getting in through them. HaHaHaHa!

Fed ewe have to learn to read wot people are posting & not go off 1/2 cocked naming every possible senario

If ewe had read wot had been written then ewe would've heeded that the motor ran

Now if a breather was blocked it would not have ran , cause the vacume would've starved the carb of fuel

Prob here was starting the motor

Yes but now things have changed and he can't keep it running without pumping the primer bulb.

It's obvious something has changed and I guess Hustler saying that nothing had changed meant that... He had changed nothing.
Thsi is like herding cats.

il give the carby's a good clean with carby cleaner in the next few days and then see how it goes..

Let us know what happens Hustler.

dont 4get to check the breather hustler

Brurry Flacan 2 strokes !

They should all be ZOTTED with a big ZOT GUN

Tried firing up my 2 stroke today on the wittle wittlest goaty after spending the morn washing & cleaning it up ready to advertise

Twas 6 months ago when last I fired it up & bastard of a thingy didn't want to kick over nor was there any indication of it doing so.

Mind ewes I didn't help from last trip out not having run the carbs dry of fuel either

Out came the spanner pulled out the 3 bleeder bolts, drained the old fuel out , Checked the Breather tightened evlly ting back up again, re-primed the carbs &

Vroooom Vroooom she started 1st crank

Think owning 4 bangers on the other goats ewe 4get wot a bitch 2 strokes can be like to start @ times

Least you got yours started Jumpy. I went to start my 40 hp a few weeks back after not going for about 4 months, new fuel etc but hit the key and the starter motor just spun around and didnt throw out the bendix and didn't engage the flywheel, so I kept hitting the key hoping it would free up, next thing I know smoke starts pour from the cowling, the wires from igniotion box burnt out, so now boat out of action.

No good frank !

If that happens sum times a few lights hits with a hammer on the amateur gear will free it use sum spray lube as well , if not best to pull starter apart to release stuck bits [which is generally rust buildup]

Depends how many got zotted they are pretty easy to make nu wuns for

Frank I just turn the key and the motor starts,,,,,,,,,, yammy how are good dose it get

Paul

only because yours is a 4 banger poly all ewe need to do is just touch the key & they start

My wittle 50 hp 2 stroke is a Yammy & it never starts 1st crank when cold

hmmmmmmmmm I owned a 50hp merc blue band, it was a while ago was new in those days, Drank petrol like it was grog, roared like a bull, and was a bitch to start, but with a little TLC it was easy, set chock to full on, crank over till it cough's, set chock to half, then crank till it starts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hopefully,,,,,,,,,,,, yep its away now for the rest of the day and will start hot no worry's

Paul

There's only one better noise than a howling 2 stroke Merc, a purring 4 stroke.

well guys, i gt in there and sprayed the carbys with carby cleaner,

its still doing the same thing, im not yet convinced that its the carbys yet... i dunno but i have a feeling its may be a blocked fuel filter..... thinking that its not pushing enough fuel thru the filter but when i push the bubble its forcing fuel thru the filter......... just a thought

Spraying the carbs will do jack shit, if anything it'll make them worse

If there was gunk or crap in them , that crap has to go sum where & where do ewe think that sum where is ??

Carbs need to be taken off the motor & cleaned thorouly on a bench simple as that

A couple of things to think about Hustler.

If it ran fine at speed then that would mean your fuel system is good from the breather to the carby float bowl and everything in between including the filter & fuel pump because any restriction will show up at speed.

If it started and idled fine after it warmed up then that would mean your carbys are OK too.

You said that nothing had changed but now you have to pump primer bulb to keep it going?????

Something just isn't adding up here.

If you pump the primer bulb up to firm then the motor should start & run for a minute or two on the fuel in the bowls even if the filter is blocked or the pump's not working.
Does it do that???

The problem is your topic title get your carb serviced and re-built-problem solved!

yep thats what it does fed...

i know that im prob gona have to go get the caby's done... but just wanna make sure that thats the problems before i go spending at least $250....

Then the last thing I'd do is get the carbys done unless Storms will reimburse you if it doesn't fix it.
You need to check the fuel pump is pumping fuel as I described earlier.

yep ..
well ive got the mechnic comming out on friday to suss it out and fix the dam thing.... enof is enof i wanna go fishing....

anyway thanks for all ya help fellow fishos..

il will let ya all know friday night what the hell was wrong with it......

How did it go Hustler?

yes fed you are wright just this once, it is time for an update.
come on hustler hows it going

Paul

I think there is a Seed stuck in the needle...

Its so hard to diagnose engine problems without seeing it, thus why i haven't commented...

Start with the basic's, fuel line, filter, then move on, pull the carby off, clean it.. check the needle isnt blocked up, check the floats. Check your electrics..

If you havnt played with them much before, just take it to a mech and get it done, if you know what your doing or have a bit of nouse, buy a rebild kit and do it properly.. no point half doing the job and somthing else going wrong later.

Carby's can be such temperamental things...

well i got the mechanic out today to have a look at fix it....

well first of all the fuel line connection where it connects to the fuel tank was faulty ( after market ) and had an air leak which was
part of the problem...



but after all is said and done it turns out that its the fuel pump.....

so on monday going to organise a new fuel pump.....

Should be a cheap fix Hustler, good one.

The only re-imbursement will be a big foot in your mouth fed when the engine finally gets to the mechanic and he resolves the issue, never know it might be the breather still

You should take your foot out of your own mouth Storms, go back & read the posts mate.

Have to admit that you're all over the place Benny & it's velly hard making sense of anything I'll just take sum quotes from your replies



That comment shoots down your mechanic's analasis of the fuel pump prob he's claiming

Fuel pumps work off a diaphram & if that diaphram is torn/ripped then no fuel would've been reaching the carbs so cant see how it could've been running like a dream



That comment indicates to me that your fuel pump is working just fine sum ting is sucking the fuel dont ewe agree ???



Now that comment makes sense to me

On any of my boats I refuse to have any form of fuel connection , tis direct fuel hose all the way



It's only 4 screws on the pump Benny, undo them & have a look @ the Diaphram B4 ewe go out & buy a new wun

ps] Me Tinks Fed & Storms R in Luv

Whilst I'm here

Hey Frank did ewe sort out the melted wires on your starter ????????????

yes and your point is jg ???

everything that i have posted on here have been of what has occured....

the mechanic that said to me that it was the carby was a mechanic that happen to be down there at the moment i was at the ramp trying to start the engine..... not the mechanic that i use normally...

apparently the fuel pump is working fine at high revs its just at idle... (well when i replave the fuel pump we will find out..)


JG i am known for often talking in riddles and all over the place but that comes from previous work experiences and training.

jg please dont try and make sense to much of what i say as ive had people for the last 30 years trying to make sense of me and they are still trying..

I've got to agree, none of it quite adds up Hustler but a fuel pump kit or just a diaphram won't cost much if only to rule that out as a problem.

Storms is a turkey, he's on the fringe of the trade and still believes 2 x 25A circuit breakers connected in series results in a 50A breaker, some people you just can't help. Not sure what his breather problem is about though.

well we will all find out once i have replaced the fuel pump...

so far we have found that the connection from the fuel line to the tank had an air leak... as well as the fuel pump,

so once the fuel pump has been replaced il take it out for a spin and see what happens.. if it keeps happening then il call him back out again
and investigate it further.. but if that happens then we know for sure what it isnt,

but i agree that it doesnt make a lot of sence but as i said what is and has been happening i have told you all about...

you ask for an update so i give ya one....

That's why I dont Jumpus in & assume benny

I apply logic & after going back & reading all that you've written it just didn't make sense & I think your mechanic is wrong assuming it's a fuel pump prob

I'm pretty handy around motors & can get to the prob most of the time but there's allways wun which will stump me, that's why my Uams are in pieces @ present, they dont need to be but I wanted to as I like my motors to be running spot on



Yes Fed I know exactlyt wot ewe mean, good example is when your Shinny Head starts doing 360's [like trhe chick from the movie The Exocist] every time I try & convince ewe that condensation really does occur in fuel tanks ewe wally

Was the ignition block CDI or whatever you call it. NO haven't done anything about it yet, still hanging off the motor by what wires are left.
The cdi unit itself don't look burnt it's just the wires leading to it.
The starter I think will work OK with a couple of turns of the bendix.
Havn't looked at it since it happened just put it in the back shed and closed the doors.

i also like my motors to be in perfect running order...

im not sure if my mechanic is right or wrong on saying its the pump but after the new pump is put in and i take it out for a test run well then il know,

time will tell