Sticky Needle And Seed Carby... Options

[hustler57]

hello fellow fishos,

took my boat out last week for a run, had a few problems starting it, but after got it started it ran like a dream,

the mechanic took a look at it and said that it has sticky needle and seed... and it should cost about $250 to fix.... is there anything i can do myself to fix it ?? or what ?

as they fuel line bubble isnt staying hard....

i have got a spare set of carby's for it... would or is it a big job to change the carby's over ?

[Fed]

Get a new mechanic.

The needle & seat is only a tiny valve that opens & closes via the float in the carby bowl, it's all designed to keep the fuel level in the carby bowl at a constant height much like a toilet cistern.

From what you described the problem won't be caused by your needle & seat sticking.

Describe your starting procedure and we can go from there.

[jasonb]

yeah i agree with fed ,,if your handy you can just buy a new needle and seat and install them yourself,i wouldnt just change the other carby over it may be worse ,,,without seeing the engine you may have to buy a new gasket that goes between the carby and head ,but they should be cheap ,you could make a new gasket as well yourself ,,,jas

[nimrod]

Go down to super cheap or similar and buy a can of carby cleaner. Around $15.
Take off cowling of motor and remove air filters from carbys, put muffs on
or place motor in test bucket ( want of better word ) and start and run motor at fast idle
squirt some carby cleaner into each carby, run motor at around 1/4 throttle or full warm up
for about 20 seconds then put into gear ( ensuring prop is clear ) and rev engine around 1/2
throttle while squirting carby cleaner into carbys.
Then while continuing squirting the cleaner into carbys rev motor up and down till about 3/4 throttle
do this for a further 10 seconds or so while squirting heaps of carby cleaner into the carbys.

This is what your mechanic would have done for his charge he told you, so you have done what
he would have done for the price of the can of Carby cleaner.

Your carbys should now be free of all gunk .
It's not a bad idea to do this every season at least once, specially if mixing oil in it yourself in the fuel tank
type fuel.

This post has been edited by nimrod: Jan 26 2010, 08:17 PM

[Fed]

I'm speechless.

[jasonb]

thats good too nimrod ,but the needle and seat may be worn out ,if so no amount of carb cleaner will fix that,and that will only clean out the throats of the carbs not the actual fuel bowls ,where the needle and seat are ,if the motors been sitting and had fuel in the bowl after a while they get a waxey buildup and this may make the needle and seat stick too ,,jas

This post has been edited by jasonb: Jan 26 2010, 09:53 PM

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Carby cleaner may do the job but think there is a better product avail

It's called Brake Kleen

Stuff will remove anything if your prob is just built up oil residue sticking the needle

... and it should cost about $250 to fix....

You're very vague like most people when describing

Dont know your mech from a bar of soap wot exactly is he going to do to the carby & is that price to service all of them if ewe have more than wun

[Fed]

I guess $250 isn't too bad to remove, strip, clean, reassemble with any new parts required then refit & adjust some carbys but I don't think a stuck needle & seat is the problem.

Remember it ran like a clock after you got it started.

Your primer bulb should pump up firm but after the motor is running they always go a little softer.

[hustler57]

ok when i took it down to the ramp at revesby and put it in the water, put the choke up tried to start it, it started then stopped, pumped the bubble again and t did the same thing,

i spent about 30 mins trying to start it, when i noticed that there was another boat next to me with a boat mechanic working on the outboard on that,

when he finished with that i got him to take a look at mine, he tapped the top of it just above the carby's with a hammer and when starting it he kept pumping the fuel bubble,

he said it was a sticky needle and seed and i asked how much to fix it and he said about $250......

so we turned it off, and when to start it again..... wouldnt start so we pumped the fuel line bubble and it started...

once the motor warmed up i turned it off again and it started first go, the mechanic that looked at it wasnt the outboard mechanic that normally works on my boats he just happened to be there at the time,

while the engine was running i noticed that the fuel line bubble wasnt staying very hard at all.... ie : not getting enought fuel......

this is really annoying as this is the only thing wrong with an otherwise great little engine.......

so ma question is is it a needle and seed issue ??

[Fed]

put the choke up tried to start it,

That would be the fast idle lever.
You should have a seperate choke, usually depressing the starter key.

Tapping the top of the carby near the fuel entry is only to dislodge a bit of crap that is holding the needle & seat open and causing flooding which is the opposite of what you had.

Go and find what actuates your choke & use it in conjunction with your fast idle lever.
Cold 2 strokes are hard to start & keep running without a choke.

PS: Make sure your tank breather is not partially blocked or closed.

This post has been edited by Fed: Jan 27 2010, 09:49 PM

[hustler57]

my choke is a manual choke fed, so ya need to use the choke lever as well as the fast idle lever,

ive always had 2 strokes on ma boats for the last 8 years, there a major pain in the butt to start when there cold

and ive got my tank breather always open to allow for any vapour build up,

i started it up again yesturday and i had to keep pressing the fuel line bubble to keep the motor running,

ive got some carby cleaner in the garage so on sunday im going to spray some carby cleaner into the carby and see how that goes,

its a pain in the butt cause i dont think its a major problem, if the carby cleaner doesnt work then il get ma mechanic out to fix it,

[Fed]

Last time you used it you said it ran well all day after getting it started but now you need to keep squeezing the primer bulb to keep it running.

Is this something that has changed since last time or did it all lose something in the translation?

Needing to pump the primer bulb would point towards the fuel pump not working, blocked breather, air leaks in fuel line, blockage in fuel line or even a blocked up fuel filter.

At idle it should run for a couple of minutes on what fuel is in the fuel bowl.

You could pull off the fuel line after the fuel pump then crank it over to see if it's pumping fuel.

This is best done with the kill switch activated so it doesn't start up on you and don't use a lighter to get a better view of the fuel coming out etc.
Try and catch it in a cup and if you set fire to yourself or your motor don't call me.
Let us know if you find anything, good luck.

[hustler57]

nothing has changed since that time it ran like a dream,

ive only just bought new fuel line and connections for it... thinking that may be the problem...

it may be a blocked fuel filter, because with the cow off the fuel goes into a semi clear little canister/bowl and you can se the fuel in that drop...

now you have me tinking it may be a blocked fuel filter or pump.........

[Fed]

If you pump the fuel bulb up until it's firm then start the motor does it run OK for a minute or two then runs out of fuel?

If you have changed some fuel lines make sure the arrow on the primer bulb is pointing in the right direction of fuel flow and pointing upwards as well.

I think the quickest way to see if it's pumping fuel is to disconnect the line between the pump & the carbies then crank it over. (Don't forget the kill switch)

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Fed dont start up with nonsense in regards to breathers nothing to do with hustlers prob

while the engine was running i noticed that the fuel line bubble wasnt staying very hard at all....

Not really an issue Benny, wun of my primer bulbs does exactly that but I'm still getting fuel through the system
Your motor has got a mechanical fuel pump, once motor starts cranking pump starts working & as long as there's fuel in the carbs motor will kick over.

2 strokes are a pain in the arse to initially crank over

Your prob may not even be the needle sticking, if carb is gunked up the reed valve may have been stuck

It would pay to get carb / 's overhauled

[Fed]

Fed dont start up with nonsense in regards to breathers nothing to do with hustlers prob

Just covering all the bases Jumpy, are you on drugs, if you're not then you should be.
You've obviously never had a problem with breathers other than rain getting in through them. HaHaHaHa!

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Fed ewe have to learn to read wot people are posting & not go off 1/2 cocked naming every possible senario

If ewe had read wot had been written then ewe would've heeded that the motor ran

Now if a breather was blocked it would not have ran , cause the vacume would've starved the carb of fuel

Prob here was starting the motor

[Fed]

Yes but now things have changed and he can't keep it running without pumping the primer bulb.

Last time you used it you said it ran well all day after getting it started but now you need to keep squeezing the primer bulb to keep it running.

Is this something that has changed since last time or did it all lose something in the translation?

It's obvious something has changed and I guess Hustler saying that nothing had changed meant that... He had changed nothing.
Thsi is like herding cats.

[hustler57]

il give the carby's a good clean with carby cleaner in the next few days and then see how it goes..

[Fed]

Let us know what happens Hustler.