Tiller Or Forward Steering Options

[Fed]

I'm a sit down driver now, I'm never in a hurry and I like to enjoy the journey.

[squizzytaylor]

JG, I refered to Reverse chines as I dont think the deadrise on the poly is anything out of the ordinary and in fact is a very mild v, The outer extremities of the lower hull (or as I would call them chines) are about 4 inches deep and trap air at planing speeds which cushions the boat somewhat. I realise that literally speaking a chine is any angular change in the hulls cross-section but Im not sure what the hell you'd call theses things otherwise.

[poly]

KKW if u are like me u will enjoy the ride with the pedal right were it should be in the comfort zone with yourself down the blunt end if the throttle is to the stop u will know just how much that can hurt so my frend sit back and enjoy the ride.

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Looking @ the pic & you had me Con Few Cious there sqizzy

Initially thought the front boat was also a poly & correct me if I'm wrong but you striped front boat to fit out the poly ??

Yep that is a chine in the rear boat but some peeps also refer to a chine being the shape of the hull & thats what I thjought you were initially refering to.

Now as I said earlier I did view the poly's @ the recent boat show & did see the way they were contructed again this is my personal view dosen't mean I'm right or wrong but that chine your boat is showing to me is more to strengthen the hull dont believe it has a great deal to do with giving you a softer ride.

I know that the poly have a inner & outer skin & @ some point must be welded together & to me that chine is a logical point to do this.

The other thing that stood out to me in the pic is that cavity is only about 12" wide & only shows itself aft of the hull, remember the last say 30 % of a hull rarely ever leaves the water thus cant act as to much of a softener against thudding.

Thats why I initially said that with a tiller steer boat you'll allways get a softer ride simply becauce your arse is sitting where the boat hull rarely ever leaves the water

[Fed]

Squizzy I think the shape of that hull is way beyond description, you could call the parts of the cross section anything you like and get away with it. :wacko:

[Jumpus GooDarus]

I've got to agree with the Fed on his last comments & thats a 1st

After posting my last reply last night I had another look @ the pic & have a Q ???

Like I I believe that the chine is designed that way cause the boat is plastic & not because the poly mob came up with a new beaut way of giving the boat a softer ride.

Another reason bieng plastic does not have the strength os a Alloy or glass boat & as with these boats all the weight is taken by the keel when they sit on the trailer with side rollers/skids only there to balance the boat.

The thing that caught my eye on your pic squizzy was your boat accomidates skids on what you call reverse chines & only ever seeing one poly on the water & never paying attention @ the poly's @ the goat show.

Was the boat designed with the chine in mind to accomidate the skids or rollers ???

Because that makes a hell of alot more sense to me than the theory that the chines are that way to give you a softer ride

[squizzytaylor]

Im not sure that the r/c's are there or were designed to give a softer ride but I believe they do assist in this. They are also hollow so I dont believe that it is a strength or integrity thing. One thing for sure is they aint there to help with spray cos its a wet boat when the chops happening!! Being hollow though it may be where some of the stability at rest comes from??? . The first polys were supplied on roller trailers and its only in the last 2-3 years that they went to a full skid trailer so I doubt that reasoning but who knows????? The hulls are joined between the upper and lower floors with what looks like a dissimilar plastic to the hull there are about 24 joining points in the hull both port and s/b the centre of the hull is open as it contains the fuel tank and has a false floor covering this cavity.
The front boat in the photo was a UB580 and just happened to be at the dealer for service when the poly arrived (I would gladly own another Banana boat though as I had a couple of different ones in PNG)
The bottom line though is I dont work for or design for poly so I really dont know the motivation behind it, my comment are based wholly on my personal observations. What I do know is that as (bizzare/unusual/unconventional etc etc etc) as they look, they work. Unfortunately Polycraft are not the greatest company for customer relations and communication and whereas most "mainstream" boat builders push thier peculiarities as "features" and are very quick to point out thier benefits, Polycraft don't and in fact do very little in the way of marketing and advertising.
One thing for sure though is we are going to be seeing a lot more of "plastic boats" in the near future, with Triumph now being imported in decent numbers and "mac boats" being handled via Haines under the "Ensign" banner one would also imagine that Poly are going to lift thier game in relation to the finish of thier product if they are going to remain competitive and grow beyong the "niche market" phase in the market place.

Cheers guys
Geoff

This post has been edited by squizzytaylor: Sep 4 2007, 07:31 PM

[Jumpus GooDarus]

They are also hollow so I dont believe that it is a strength or integrity thing

squizzy that's just fine you dont need a solid block to give you strength hollows can achive the same result.

I'm chatting with SUMO as I'm typing & he informed me back when the poly's 1st came out they used wobble rollers to stabilize the boat on the trailer & the hulls were getting ripples @ the pressure points.

It just makes sense to me that the manufacturer strengthened that area that you refer to as reverse chine.

What does arouse my curiosiuty though is how far up the boat from the transom dose that reverse chine run ??

That alone will indicate why they are there, for example if the r/c only runs 4ward around 2 meters or so then it's only there for strength & my view is for trailer support cause I cant see how that part of the boat ever leaves the water therefore cannot act as a cushioning device.

[poly]

This will show the chine running away from the bow, the photo is of a 4.1 i think that Squizzy's 4.55 is very similar to this as the boats increase in size the chine gets wider and deeper while decreasing in length however the amount of V in the hull in creases, wheth this has ony bearing on the overall discushion i do not no all i know is that it works so i will leave it at that.
the blue boat is a 4.8 and the two real color boats are 4.1's

This post has been edited by poly: Sep 4 2007, 10:50 PM

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[squizzytaylor]

This shows the 4.55 better.


Cheers
GT

[Fed]

Is there a Poly website with pictures & specs?

[squizzytaylor]

http://www.polycraft.com.au/

GT

This post has been edited by squizzytaylor: Sep 4 2007, 11:22 PM

[poly]

hear are the specks for the 4.5 thay are much like most other boats in this class

Standard Features
front 120 litre storage bin
full floor
Centre console with tinted screen
grab rail
steering cable and helm
Bow roller
cleat
winch point
anchor well
drain bungs
rod holders (2)
hand rails
padded swivel seat
passenger hand rail
aluminium transom plate.
Optional Extras
70 litre Poly underfloor fuel tank with sender
canopies
boarding rails
boarding ladder
swivel seats
120 litre esky / storage seat
centre seat
three piece cushion set
bow rails
ski hooks
bait board with rod holders
carpet
positive flotation for commercial or survey requirements.

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Just had a looky look @ the poly site & read some of the claims made by polycraft

Well what can I say guys except

At least now I know where that browny guy was getting all his ill informed info from back @ SF to throw back @ me

Onw thing ewe guys need to know about me is that I tell it as I see it I just dont have many years expirience in boating what I have that alot of those claiming to have is the amount of hrs behind the wheel as well as fishing out of many different types of boats.

I dont echo what someone has told me nor what I've read when talking boats I speak from expirience or logic & I'm not shy to criticise that which I own if need be which are the alloy boats & have done so on many a occasion when I've seen people talking out of their arseholes.

Dont want to turn this thread all about poly's & I've done well so far by keeping my remarks to such which explain why the ride is softer/smoother aft on any boat which is what kk originally stated about tiller steer.

Now my little goat generally handles very well untill 2day when I took SUMO out for a fish, I was all over the place in relatively good conditions & had to keep him aft & I say this with no disrespect to SUMO either.

Both poly & sqizzy drive your boat from the aft so naturally you will get a softer ride & I really cant see how the softer ride claim can be warranted esp you poly considering you've stated that your boat is under powered lets see what you've got to say about the boat once you've re-powered.

Better still lets hear what possum or someone who's a passenger up forward has to say & be fair about it give the thoatle some stick in unfavourable conditions.

I said that I got a laugh readind some of the polycraft claims I wont answer all just a few

The unique hull design features pronounced reverse chines which contribute to unmatched stability at rest. The reverse chines also promote lift when accelerating onto the plane and allow for tighter cornering at high speed.

Obviously these guys have never been in a cat to make such claims nor have they had somebody as big as SUMO in their boats, promoting lift has nothing to do with the r/c's & everything to do with torque as mentioned in poly's thread about his new motor.

Polycraft boats feature a unique, soft ride. Polycraft boats flex to absorb the impact of the sea, just like the shock absorbers on your car absorb and deflect the jarring from potholes in the road.

poly's are made from bloody plastic of all things of coarse they are going to flex shock absorbers my arse

Polycraft's dual wall hull absorbs both engine noise and the noise of the sea. This result is a quieter ride and a more enjoyable day on the water. If fishing is your passion you may benefit from quietly approaching you favourite fishing spot.

Who do these guys get to write the script ????

Engine noise gets dispersed through the exhaust & wind as far as stealth goes approahing you favourite fishing spot goes well most will scare the crap out of the fish when they drop the anchor


OK one more cant help myself

Polyethylene has natural buoyancy and will float unaided when placed in water. The unique dual wall construction traps
air in the cavities between the walls and contributes positive buoyancy.

If the air wasn't there then the walls would suck in like a big vacum chamber, & I'll tell ewes what I'd rather have whats in my boats in day of the week than air it's called flotation air can escape & when it dose water will get in flotation will limit how much water enters the hull Of course I'm refering to wet decks not a open boat either way I feel alot safer knowing there's flotation in my boats than air pockets.

I also noticed that the polys have bung plugs in the transom ! nothing wrong with that but do you guys get any water in between the skins ??? I'm assuming there would be such bung plugs.


ps] you poly guys might think I'm making fun out of your boats but dont blame me I'm not the one making such over the top claims blame polycraft it's called marketing to sell their product & you've got to admit some of those claims are over the top & I only touched on the 1st 4

[poly]

poly's are made from bloody plastic of all things of coarse they are going to flex shock absorbers my arse

good heavens J G you do agree that polycraft are made from plastic that's a starting point, now do u agree with the hypnosis that as it flexes it will absorb shock at the point of impact and there for transfer less shocks back to the occupants on board, if u do acknowledge this u must also agree that it has to give a better ride than a hull that does not flex, how say u my friend
i will address the other points u have raised when we have dispensed with this one

This post has been edited by poly: Sep 6 2007, 11:26 PM

[Jumpus GooDarus]

poly do you really want to know why I pay out on the polycraft ???????????????????????

7 months ago I didn't even know they existed & ever since then all I've ever heard about them is what people have read on the poly sight & the other day was the 1st time I ever visited it.

And I'll tell you what I had a very good laugh

Cause know I know where all your information comes from !

Now I dont think I've ever heard a single valid point in their favour coming directly from a poly owner all have been a echo from their site & it's all sales talk as far as I'm concerned.

Now if you want to invite one of the poly manufacturer's here where I know I cant be deleted to argue valid points on the boats they are more than welcome & I promise I'll give them more than a fair chance to plead a good case for their boats.

If you asked me to give you advice on a Alloy or glass boat @ least I would be fair & point out any & all their bad point that I know but what I've noticed about poly owners is that they are always on the defensive from the word go that's no good cause peeps will always MOCK your boats.

Which reminds me we worked out what the reverse chines really do & I cant help myself

They allow you to see down the back when reversing the trailer Great Idea I take my hat off to polycraft for coming up with the concept

u must also agree that it has to give a better ride than a hull that does not flex, how say u my friend

ps] poly I cannot agree that this is true cause I've never been in one & I'm sure not to many peeps would let me @ their controls if they knew how & where I would be taking one for a test run like I've said on numerous occasions I'll only comment through expirience not by from what someone has echoed or told me.

As far as theorys go I cant answer your Q & here's a good example as to why.

Some time back I was having discussion/debate with the Fed about trailers his point made more sense in theory & I spoke through expirience having used both methods we were talking about skids opposed to rollers.

[poly]

but my dear friend i am a valid poly owner, u have accepted that poly's flex this a fact i feel it every time i drive my boat.
you say that this has no bearing on the ride i have to disagree as it is not that different to a car manufacture building crumple zone's into cars to absorb shock, if it absorbs shock it must give a better ride and as a poly owner i can say it is a true fact, as for defence of the brand it-is the poly knockers that bring this out i would never go this far out on other forums because all i would get is bullshit but hear i will at-least get a hearing with people i respect

[Jumpus GooDarus]

poly when were talking boating think you miss the point @ times & fail to see the overall picture

See if I can explain

From what I gather of your boat it is only 4.1 metre ? & very underpowered else you wouldn't be repowing

Now in your own words you're lucky to pull any speed & I know you fish in pretty safe waters so how can you possibly make the claim it's a softer ride than say a tinny of the same size ?

Because the tinny also has flex maybe not the same as a poly but flex none the less & whereas the poly would weigh considerably more the tinny would skip across those fair conditions that I mentioned earlier with relatively ease getting up more speed & planing alot quicker with the same size motor that is currently on your poly.

You have to be fair when making such bold claims cause someone will allways be here to shoot them down.

When I talk about my big boat you never hear me boasting this or that the only thing I say is that I always feel safe in it & just ask ask those who've fish with me I give it hell in some big seas most times I'm out there when everybody has shat themselves & come home.

No boat is perfect all have their good & bad points but the way you guys carry on about the poly's you leave yourselves open to major critisium we dont do it you do.

Now I can accept that the poly may be a good boat but so far I haven't heard of to many owners with larger models come forward & give 1st hand expiriences of how they handle in a open sea my boat is proven & I'm wise enough not to take my little tinny outside unless it's pretty well dead flat

[poly]

J G this discushion has not yet answered the question that i asked, in the first plase, if a poly flexes will it absorb shock, is this not a true statment, so in this fashion will it give a better ride i would have to say it does

[Jumpus GooDarus]

How can I possibly answer that question without talking out of my arse ????

I only answer Q's which I'm confident of knowing the answer to

See poly I have not made any claims here I've only responded to the ones made.

Here's a simple Q for you to ponder over

I have no knowledge of any maybe you may have

How many poly's do you know of that are used in the commercial sector

If poly's are as crash hot as peeps make them out to be why dont we see water police MSB or any of the other authorities using them ???