Paul
Full Version: Fuel E10
I was told to day that standed unleaded will be fazed out and replaced with E10, is there any truth in this statement or am I having my leg pulled, and if it is true can it be used in modem outboards like my 40/4stroke, I was told not
Paul
Paul
QUOTE (poly @ Apr 2 2010, 04:19 PM) 
I was told to day that standed unleaded will be fazed out and replaced with E10, is there any truth in this statement or am I having my leg pulled, and if it is true can it be used in modem outboards like my 40/4stroke, I was told not
Paul
Paul
Paul. unfortunately it is true, many stations are already phasing it out and it will come into full effect in July 2011 I believe.
I would say they will invent an additive you will be able to add to your fuel so you can still use the new gunk.
A bit like when the old super petrol was phased out you bought a sactual of additive to add to each 50 ltrs of fuel, it was a bummer with my old 351 v8 that ran on super. Back then alloy heads could run the unleaded but the old cast heads needed the addiditive.
My etec won't run on e10 or ultimate unleaded or any of the newer blends so I just have to wait and see if I have to throw away a perfectly good engine so that Johnnie Howards brother can add a few more millions to his wealth.
Yep thare is talk of phasing out unleaded dont know how far away they're going to do it
4 or 2 stroke it makes no difference E10 is crap in both
4 or 2 stroke it makes no difference E10 is crap in both
I pulled this off the Honda site
I will keep looking and see what i can find
Paul
QUOTE
Can I use ethanol fuel with my Honda Marine product?
While E10 ethanol fuel can be used with Honda Marine products, it’s best to speak to the boat builder first. There will be issues with certain fuel tanks (aluminium and fibreglass) as well as hoses and other fuel line components.
Use of higher ethanol grade fuels may cause running and/or performance issues. If an engine failure occurs and a higher ethanol grade fuel has been used then repairs will not be covered by the Honda limited warranty. Please consult your owners manual for details.
While E10 ethanol fuel can be used with Honda Marine products, it’s best to speak to the boat builder first. There will be issues with certain fuel tanks (aluminium and fibreglass) as well as hoses and other fuel line components.
Use of higher ethanol grade fuels may cause running and/or performance issues. If an engine failure occurs and a higher ethanol grade fuel has been used then repairs will not be covered by the Honda limited warranty. Please consult your owners manual for details.
I will keep looking and see what i can find
Paul
from the makers of the mighty black motors
to me this is the best i have read
*
to me this is the best i have read
*
QUOTE
Fuel system components of Mercury Outboard and Sterndrive Engines can and will withstand up to 10% Ethanol content in gasoline
*
Water contamination of fuel is the big issue and concern
*
The best advice we have for customers is to empty the fuel tanks for long term storage. Alternatively, keeping the fuel tank full reduces the amount of exchange between the fuel and air that might bring in condensation
Phase separation essentially means that the ethanol in the fuel has attracted water (usually already present from condensation and/or other sources) into the fuel mix. When the right amount of water enters the mixture, most of the ethanol and water will tend to separate from the fuel (into a different "phase") and drop to a lower level or layer inside the tank (water is heavier than fuel). If this layer of concentrated ethanol and water is drawn into the engine's fuel system, significant damage can occur. Further, the level at which phase separation occurs is determined by a number of variables, one of which is the temperature of the environment. This may help to explain why some regions of the country may be more affected by ethanol than others. Mercury Marine believes this higher ethanol exposure has caused product failures in fuel system components on two-stroke and four-stroke product.
Ethanol has very different solvency behaviors than gasoline and is a proven contributor to the deterioration of certain rubber and/or plastic components and electrical potting compounds. Mercury is aware of this potential and is constantly working to implement material improvements to better withstand the effects of ethanol. One such improvement in place on all 75-115 hp four-strokes since 2006 and Verados since June 2007 (most easily identified by the polished chrome graphics package) is an improved float switch in the fuel supply module that ensures the integrity of the switch itself, even when exposed to higher ethanol concentrations. This change alone should address the majority of ethanol-induced product failures within the fuel system.
Mercury continues to monitor the ethanol situation worldwide and makes every effort to upgrade materials as necessary to ensure the continued reliable, durable operation of all of its outboard products.
Ethanol sugar cane
*
Water contamination of fuel is the big issue and concern
*
The best advice we have for customers is to empty the fuel tanks for long term storage. Alternatively, keeping the fuel tank full reduces the amount of exchange between the fuel and air that might bring in condensation
Phase separation essentially means that the ethanol in the fuel has attracted water (usually already present from condensation and/or other sources) into the fuel mix. When the right amount of water enters the mixture, most of the ethanol and water will tend to separate from the fuel (into a different "phase") and drop to a lower level or layer inside the tank (water is heavier than fuel). If this layer of concentrated ethanol and water is drawn into the engine's fuel system, significant damage can occur. Further, the level at which phase separation occurs is determined by a number of variables, one of which is the temperature of the environment. This may help to explain why some regions of the country may be more affected by ethanol than others. Mercury Marine believes this higher ethanol exposure has caused product failures in fuel system components on two-stroke and four-stroke product.
Ethanol has very different solvency behaviors than gasoline and is a proven contributor to the deterioration of certain rubber and/or plastic components and electrical potting compounds. Mercury is aware of this potential and is constantly working to implement material improvements to better withstand the effects of ethanol. One such improvement in place on all 75-115 hp four-strokes since 2006 and Verados since June 2007 (most easily identified by the polished chrome graphics package) is an improved float switch in the fuel supply module that ensures the integrity of the switch itself, even when exposed to higher ethanol concentrations. This change alone should address the majority of ethanol-induced product failures within the fuel system.
Mercury continues to monitor the ethanol situation worldwide and makes every effort to upgrade materials as necessary to ensure the continued reliable, durable operation of all of its outboard products.
Ethanol sugar cane
My motor (V4 90HP 1988 Evinrude) will run E10 and I replaced the old fuel line & primer bulb with genuine OMC.
All I need to worry about is the E10 descaling my condensation free alloy tank but my fuel filter should take care of that.
When the changeover comes I'll switch to PULP anyway, can't be too careful.
Frank, I'm surprised your Etec won't run E10 or PULP, are you sure about that?
All I need to worry about is the E10 descaling my condensation free alloy tank but my fuel filter should take care of that.
When the changeover comes I'll switch to PULP anyway, can't be too careful.
Frank, I'm surprised your Etec won't run E10 or PULP, are you sure about that?
seems strange that the only fuel that can be used is standed unleaded fed
try this mob and see what they have to say.
http://www.justanswer.com/tags/boat/evinru...CFRM3bwod7DxVEw
Paul
try this mob and see what they have to say.
http://www.justanswer.com/tags/boat/evinru...CFRM3bwod7DxVEw
Paul
QUOTE (Fed @ Apr 2 2010, 05:55 PM)
Frank, I'm surprised your Etec won't run E10 or PULP, are you sure about that?
I see Proffesor Fed is out lecturing again
Think it's time for Proffesor I Te Chu 2 sort Proffesor Fed out once again
Wots all this nonsense ewe're on about Fed ?
did ewe look it up in the trouble shooting part of the owners manuel ??
E10 wasn't around when your manual was printed
Tis the Octane level in the fuel which determines how well it burns
E10 will burn as good as unleaded BUT will also block/damage seals & thats where the prob lies
In cars it's not an issue cause ewe're using them every day but in a boat if ewe dont use it for a few months or so the vegetable based E10 will start to soliderfy & that's where the probs commence
QUOTE (Fed @ Apr 2 2010, 06:55 PM)
My motor (V4 90HP 1988 Evinrude) will run E10 and I replaced the old fuel line & primer bulb with genuine OMC.
All I need to worry about is the E10 descaling my condensation free alloy tank but my fuel filter should take care of that.
When the changeover comes I'll switch to PULP anyway, can't be too careful.
Frank, I'm surprised your Etec won't run E10 or PULP, are you sure about that?
All I need to worry about is the E10 descaling my condensation free alloy tank but my fuel filter should take care of that.
When the changeover comes I'll switch to PULP anyway, can't be too careful.
Frank, I'm surprised your Etec won't run E10 or PULP, are you sure about that?
Fed. I was told when I picked up my new Etec ( by the guy who sold and fitted my motor ) to use unleaded petrol only, e10 was not around at that time
so e10 was never mentioned, I am only going by what I have read on several different forums over the past few years since Johnny howards brother bought the ethonal plant and Johnny all of a sudden approved it's use. Strange thing was that before his brother became an ethonol plant owner Johnny Howard was opposed to using ethenol, but thats a different story.
I am no chemist and I am only going by what the general concensus of the issue and following everyone elses guidence like a lost sheep.
If some time down the track it's prooved that e10 or super dupa high premiem bullshit fuel can safely be used in my motor then I will use it.
Till then I heed the words of someone who knows better then me.
QUOTE (nimrod @ Apr 3 2010, 09:36 AM)
Fed. I was told when I picked up my new Etec ( by the guy who sold and fitted my motor ) to use unleaded petrol only, e10 was not around at that time
so e10 was never mentioned,
so e10 was never mentioned,
Back then it was only unleaded & Super & your mech was correct reason being the new motors weren't designed to cope with the higher lead content found in Super think it was sum ting to do with the emmisions but dont quote me on that.
QUOTE
Johnny howards brother bought the ethonal plant and Johnny all of a sudden approved it's use. Strange thing was that before his brother became an ethonol plant owner Johnny Howard was opposed to using ethenol, but thats a different story.
Think you're reading way to much into that Frank !
Nothing to do with his brother & everything to do with the rest of the world using E10 way B4 we even got a wiff of it
Oil supplies cant last 4ever & E10 is an alternative
Another thing , why do ewe thing petrol prices are so low here in Oz compared to the rest of the world ???
By using plant based fuels we aren't @ the mercy of the Arabs dictating wot we pay @ the pump
this lot is worth a read again its from mercury marine in the U.S.A. so please take the time to have a look and then make up your own mind about this stuff called E10
http://www.mercurymarine.com/serviceandwar...aqs/ethanol.php
Paul
P.S. i think franks right to a point, seems like a politicians brother buys an ethanol plant just before a decision is made to use it in fuels, or had the decision already been made ???????????????.
this is from the yamaha site and gives the best ways to prevent damage from the use of E10
Total prevention of issues may not be possible but there are steps you can take to minimize the occurrence and severity of the negative affects of E10 fuel:
* If at all possible, do not use E10 fuel.
* Ideally (before switching to E10 fuel) have your fuel tank completely drained to remove any accumulated water. As little as 500mls. of water can promote phase separation in 100L of E10 fuel. The result would be 10L of unusable ethanol and water mixture on the bottom of the tank.
* If the tank can be completely drained, the internal surfaces should be mechanically cleaned to remove rust or aluminium oxides. Fuel polishing companies may be able to provide this specialized service.
* Consider replacing the fuel tank in an older boat.
* If your boat has fibreglass fuel tanks built prior to the early 1990’s, consult with your boat builder concerning E10 compatibility.
* If unable to completely drain and clean your tank before switching to E10 fuel, add as much E10 fuel as possible to minimize the possibility of phase separation. Example: 500mls of water may cause phase separation in 100L of E10 but 500mls of water in 120L would be safe from phase separation.
* Install a Yamaha 10-micron water separating/fuel filter between the boat’s fuel tank and the engine.
* Change the 10-micron filter every 25 hours of use until there are no indications of excessive water and contaminates collecting in the filter. Normal filter changes are recommended every 50 hours of use.
* Carry extra filters and change more frequently if there are indications the efficiency of the filter is rapidly diminishing due to excessive water and contaminates.
* Buy brand name fuel.
* Buy fuel from the same source if possible.
* Buy fuel from stations that have newer, cleaner storage tanks.
* Do not drain a used filter and reinstall. Contaminated fuel can enter the filtered side of the filter while draining.
Can I use fuel with a higher percentage of ethanol, such as E15 or E85?
No, all of the negative issues discussed above will be increased and may cause major damage to the engine.
Are Yamaha engines compatible with E10 fuel?
http://www.mercurymarine.com/serviceandwar...aqs/ethanol.php
Paul
P.S. i think franks right to a point, seems like a politicians brother buys an ethanol plant just before a decision is made to use it in fuels, or had the decision already been made ???????????????.
this is from the yamaha site and gives the best ways to prevent damage from the use of E10
Total prevention of issues may not be possible but there are steps you can take to minimize the occurrence and severity of the negative affects of E10 fuel:
* If at all possible, do not use E10 fuel.
* Ideally (before switching to E10 fuel) have your fuel tank completely drained to remove any accumulated water. As little as 500mls. of water can promote phase separation in 100L of E10 fuel. The result would be 10L of unusable ethanol and water mixture on the bottom of the tank.
* If the tank can be completely drained, the internal surfaces should be mechanically cleaned to remove rust or aluminium oxides. Fuel polishing companies may be able to provide this specialized service.
* Consider replacing the fuel tank in an older boat.
* If your boat has fibreglass fuel tanks built prior to the early 1990’s, consult with your boat builder concerning E10 compatibility.
* If unable to completely drain and clean your tank before switching to E10 fuel, add as much E10 fuel as possible to minimize the possibility of phase separation. Example: 500mls of water may cause phase separation in 100L of E10 but 500mls of water in 120L would be safe from phase separation.
* Install a Yamaha 10-micron water separating/fuel filter between the boat’s fuel tank and the engine.
* Change the 10-micron filter every 25 hours of use until there are no indications of excessive water and contaminates collecting in the filter. Normal filter changes are recommended every 50 hours of use.
* Carry extra filters and change more frequently if there are indications the efficiency of the filter is rapidly diminishing due to excessive water and contaminates.
* Buy brand name fuel.
* Buy fuel from the same source if possible.
* Buy fuel from stations that have newer, cleaner storage tanks.
* Do not drain a used filter and reinstall. Contaminated fuel can enter the filtered side of the filter while draining.
Can I use fuel with a higher percentage of ethanol, such as E15 or E85?
No, all of the negative issues discussed above will be increased and may cause major damage to the engine.
Are Yamaha engines compatible with E10 fuel?
I checked the BRP website Frank and it says your Etec will run on E10 or PULP but I'd still suggest avoiding E10 because of the possible fuel tank and fuel line issues.
America has been using ethanol for over 20 years Jumpy.
America has been using ethanol for over 20 years Jumpy.
Minimum Octane
Your outboard is certified to operate on un-
leaded automotive gasoline with an octane
rating equal to or higher than:
•87 (R+M)/2 AKI — Inside the U.S.
•90 RON — Outside the U.S.
Using unleaded gasoline that contains methyl
tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) is acceptable
ONLY if the MTBE content does not exceed
15% by volume.
Alcohol Fuels
Your outboard has been designed to operate
using the specified fuels; however, be aware
of the following:
•The boat’s fuel system may have different
requirements regarding the use of alcohol
fuels. Refer to the boat’s owner guide.
•Alcohol attracts and holds moisture that can
cause corrosion of metallic parts in the fuel
system.
•Alcohol blended fuel may cause engine per-
formance problems.
Using alcohol-extended fuels is acceptable
ONLY if the alcohol content does not exceed:
•10% ethanol by volume; or
•5% methanol with 5% cosolvents by vol-
ume.
Your outboard is certified to operate on un-
leaded automotive gasoline with an octane
rating equal to or higher than:
•87 (R+M)/2 AKI — Inside the U.S.
•90 RON — Outside the U.S.
Using unleaded gasoline that contains methyl
tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) is acceptable
ONLY if the MTBE content does not exceed
15% by volume.
Alcohol Fuels
Your outboard has been designed to operate
using the specified fuels; however, be aware
of the following:
•The boat’s fuel system may have different
requirements regarding the use of alcohol
fuels. Refer to the boat’s owner guide.
•Alcohol attracts and holds moisture that can
cause corrosion of metallic parts in the fuel
system.
•Alcohol blended fuel may cause engine per-
formance problems.
Using alcohol-extended fuels is acceptable
ONLY if the alcohol content does not exceed:
•10% ethanol by volume; or
•5% methanol with 5% cosolvents by vol-
ume.
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