Condensation Options

[SUMOFISHIN]

If you blokes could just put all this effort into making outboards run on water we would all be able to go fishing anytime without spending money on fuel. and I will give you a thousand dollars to convert my engine, you will not only get Wealthy! you could be very Wise.

[hustler57]

well well well,

isnt this an interesting thread, i reckon we should all agree to disagree on this matter,

personally i believe there are only 2 ways for water to get into a fuel tank ,

1st way , there would have to be a leak in the fuel tank for water to enter the tank

2nd way, and i believe this is to more likely way, water would have to enter the tank thru being mixed up with fuel from the service station, every fuel station has water in there tanks,

lets agree to disagree

[Fed]

There is another answer.... CONDENSATION!
But only if Jumpy's fuel tank holds 100,000 litres.
Read it and weep.

[STEVE.P]

well well well,

isnt this an interesting thread, i reckon we should all agree to disagree on this matter,

personally i believe there are only 2 ways for water to get into a fuel tank ,

1st way , there would have to be a leak in the fuel tank for water to enter the tank

2nd way, and i believe this is to more likely way, water would have to enter the tank thru being mixed up with fuel from the service station, every fuel station has water in there tanks,

lets agree to disagree

there could be a 3rd way hustler . mayby fed took a leak in them
And the mini series continues tomorow ,

Will Fed agree or disagree, :huh: Can JG recover after all it was browny colour liquid

Will FED agree to a urine sample , :o

this is C D S , tune in next time

:mellow: :huh: :o

[Spudly]

you got to remember fed, that it didnt do the 3 litres overnight.. it had a few weeks to do it and each day the the tank would expand in the heat, sucking in the air, which then cooled and put a small amount of water in, the next day the same thing and so on, so over time its possable for this amount of water to get in.. Another solution might be to close the breather (plastic tank caps normally have a screw that you can close) however you run the risk of stressing the tank as it expands and compresses in the heat/cool..

[Fed]

Even if conditions were perfect for condensation every night JG would have to have 1000 x 100 Litre air changes to get his 3 litres, that's why combined with pressure his air compressor condenses so much when it's continually running, it has a continuous supply of moisture laden air.
Remember an 'average' compressor will pump maybe 20,000 Litres per hour x 8 hours = 160,000 Litres which could result in 4-5 Litres of condensation inside the compressor tank.
It's good to see you questioning things though RDNR, Jumpy needs to realise we are only trying to help him.

[Spudly]

Yea, i must say, im no expert on i at all... just trying to look from both sides...

It is definatly making for a good topic though...

[Jumpus GooDarus]

well well well,

isnt this an interesting thread, i reckon we should all agree to disagree on this matter,

personally i believe there are only 2 ways for water to get into a fuel tank ,

1st way , there would have to be a leak in the fuel tank for water to enter the tank

2nd way, and i believe this is to more likely way, water would have to enter the tank thru being mixed up with fuel from the service station, every fuel station has water in there tanks,

lets agree to disagree

Why Do You Think I Seem To Argue With Everyone ???

Nothing wrong with disagreeing with peeps see what's happened here if everyone agree's with one another all the time then topics die

OK one more time for Fed

Now Fed do you agree that water will settle @ the bottom of the tank ???
When it does this does it make way for new condensation to occur ????
Over a period of time in my case a couple of months why cant 3 - 4 litres accumilate in the take bear in mind we had alot of rain hence there was alot of moisture in the air.

Getting back to my boat went out for a fish yesterday & filled up both tanks earlier I mentioned I had no idea how much fuel was actually in the tank which gave me grief.

Well turns out there was just over 110 litres in there so it was 2/3's full I did cop a touch more water in the seperators yesterday but that could've been because I didn't change the filters they can hold a fair bit.

Other than that the new mods to the seperators worked a charm just a flick of the valve & the water was gone

Bear in mind guys I've owned this boat well over 15 years know it inside out & in all that time only on one other occasion did I get water in the fuel & as like this time it was in the stainless steel tanks never ever had a prob with the alloy tanks that were in the boat from day one or the other alloy tank which I built starting to Q if it was a wise idea to have made the new tanks out of S/S

[Fed]

Now Fed do you agree that water will settle @ the bottom of the tank ???

Yes, I've never disputed that.

When it does this does it make way for new condensation to occur ????

No, you have to get 'new' air with 'new' water content in it.

Over a period of time in my case a couple of months why cant 3 - 4 litres accumilate in the take bear in mind we had alot of rain hence there was alot of moisture in the air.

Because the water content from say 100 Litres of air is only 2-3 grams (a tiny amount), you would then have to replace the 100 Litres of air with 'new' air and condense again..... every night.... in perfect condensation conditions....
for 1000 nights to get 2-3 Litres of water.
It's just not feasible to be condensation in that quantity.

Well turns out there was just over 110 litres in there so it was 2/3's full I did cop a touch more water in the seperators yesterday but that could've been because I didn't change the filters they can hold a fair bit.

I was giving you as much leeway as I could so I was working on your tank being 1/3 full, but because it was 2/3 full then all the previous numbers need to be doubled as the air capacity of your tank just halved to just 50 Litres instead of the 100 Litres I've been allowing for.

If condensation was happening to the degree you're talking about then half the cars in the World would be stopping from it. I can't say I've ever heard of a car suffering from condensation in a fuel tank yet it should be more common than flat tyres according to your boat tank.

[Jumpus GooDarus]

No, you have to get 'new' air with 'new' water content in it.

Dosen't that occur naturally ?? all you need is a bit of a hot hot day & the fuel inside your tank will expand & when it settles back down again say when it cools down of a nightime fresh air is sucked back into the tank via the breather bear in mind also depending on the day dew occurs @ that time of the day as well.
After all that is the whole purpose of the breather to relieve pressure by the way my breathers are 1" in dia, if you dont follow what I've just said go get yourself a container fill it with fuel & seal it then see what happens to the container shape.

Because the water content from say 100 Litres of air is only 2-3 grams (a tiny amount), you would then have to replace the 100 Litres of air with 'new' air and condense again..... every night.... in perfect condensation conditions....
for 1000 nights to get 2-3 Litres of water.
It's just not feasible to be condensation in that quantity.

Think I answered that in last paragraph, you seem to think it's the same air in the tank constantley which is not the case

If condensation was happening to the degree you're talking about then half the cars in the World would be stopping from it. I can't say I've ever heard of a car suffering from condensation in a fuel tank yet it should be more common than flat tyres according to your boat tank.

Again you're working on the assumption that it's the same stale air in the tank @ all times & thats not the case as in the case of the tyres which have a valve to keep same air in @ all times.

Fed try looking @ the obvious theory that breathers allow air to enter & leave tank @ will

[Fed]

I completely agree with you, the tank will breathe as the temperature changes but how much?
I'd guess about 10% would more than cover it and that amount is nowhere nearly enough to explain the quantity of water you had in the tank.
Even a 50% air change every night will not explain it.
There's not much more to say about this unless someone else can add some input, perhaps we should call in an expert from a scientific forum, there's plenty of them out there.
If you're happy to live with it I say good for you, I wouldn't.

[Fed]

BTW, being a 1" breather I'd be looking at that very carefully remembering that the transom outlet must be way higher than where it fits into the tank.
Are you sure the water can't get in there mate?

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Only time will tell Fed.

Like I said occationally I may have to drain a little water from the seperators but nothing like what happened that day

The last trip I'd done prior to that was down to The Hump & recall running out of fuel on the front tank & switched over to the rear tank & there was no water or very little in the seperators else the motors would've stopped on that day & they didn't.

When I started them up a couple of weeks ago then ran out about 500 meters or so they were running on the fuel already in the the fuel lines & injection canister once that got used up the water came through.

Now that water wasn't there on trip prior nor do I have any leaks odd though when I filled up the front tank a couple of weeks back I haven't had a drop of water come out from that tank since easy to know if there was cause it would've shown in the seperators & that tank was bone dry prior to filling.

Best I can figure out is the theory that fuel expands push's out the air in the tank then the fresh air which re enters carrie's new moisture.

Dont think visiting scientific forums would be of any help as those guys wouldn't have had the benifit of knowing how wet or how my rig is set up & they could only make an educated guess.

No different to if you visit say a doctor with a ailment he'll schedule tests for the following week by which time the symptoms have disappeared & unless the right tests are done you'll get told there's nothing wrong with you

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Well I finally remembered to bleed the internal fuel canisters on the motors 2day last trip out a couple of weeks back the starboard motor was running sick coughing & farting & would cut out @ idle a reeal piss off when you're lining up the boat to drive up onto the trailer.

Actually bled out quite a bit of fuel just to make certain didn't really want to pull out the injectors & must say there must've been a bit of water in one ofhe canisters cn approx 00 ml came out B4 the motor stopped coughing & farting settled down to a nice smooth rythme.

Pumped a little extra fuel out of the tanks as well just to check & it was clean no water ! which led me to believe I made the correct call inicially condensation & maybe a bit of bad fuel from the servo

[SUMOFISHIN]

Have you considered this:: Heavy rain generally comes after heat, IF that is the case, then the fuel tanks in the bottom of the boat will cool after the boats exterior cools, thats when the rain is heaviest, why wouldn't contraction of the fuel tank SUCK water in the breather.

[Fed]

Pumped a little extra fuel out of the tanks as well just to check & it was clean no water ! which led me to believe I made the correct call inicially condensation & maybe a bit of bad fuel from the servo

So the condensation has just stopped happening by itself?
Well isn't that weird, could global warming have changed our climate that much?
HaHaHaHaHa!

[Jumpus GooDarus]

SUMO it's what I tryed to explain to Fed whom I might add didn't want to hear a bar of it

When this prob occured on my boat you have to remember I had not taken it out for @ least a month prior & the front tank was dead empty know this for a fact cause I had to swap over to the rear tank.

Which in all fairness plays on the point of expanding fuel getting pushed down the breather line in my case something around 3 meters & when it receeds new humidified air gets sucked back down the line.

The front tank being empty had no such probs but the front tank being @ least 2/3rd's full did add to that some very interesting info I found out a couple of weeks ago when I went out & bought some new fuel & breather hose for my little boat which cost me aroung $150 for 5 meters of 5/16 fuel line hose & 4 meters of 1/2 hose.

The hose was over twice the price of the stuff I've got in my big boat it's got a far better UV rating not to mention more importantantly it's interior contruction dont know if the guy was talking out of his :drop the daks: or not but claims were made the new stuff didnt attack water like the stuff in my big boat does completely different rubber.

Next time I take the floor up on the big goat I'll replace the lines on it just to rule them out see on the front tank 25mm alluminium tube runs out all the way to the transom where it is welded into the transom plate & yet to have a water prob with that tank where as the rear tank is a recent addition & has hoses runing back & forth.

So the condensation has just stopped happening by itself?
Well isn't that weird, could global warming have changed our climate that much?


Fed initially told you we had something like 3 weeks of bad weather there was alot of humidity in the air I may not be 100% correct but I nut thing out by ellimination I just dont go by what other peeps say or choose to post on the net like your mate [size="6"][/size]I Pissed In You Tank David Pascoe[color="#FF0000"][/color] reckons he did

[Fed]

Strange how you only get condensation in one tank, what do you think about that?

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Weight ratio on boat Fed I always run the front tank dry 1st just habit I guess & all I can put it down to is with no fuel in there to expand & contract guess no fresh air enters either.

Did take the big boat out for a run yesterday & both motors were purring I must've gotten all the water out

[Fed]

by the way my breathers are 1" in dia

That's like driving around in a car without a fuel cap.
You only need a pinhole to relieve any pressure anything larger is only used to stop any physical blockage that may occur from salt build up or crap or insects etc.