Condensation Options

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Thats not a smart way to start your post you could get some Honest responses

I may fool around & act silly SUMO but when it comes down to the nitty gritty & applying logic there's not to many better than the Jumpus I've generally got a reply for everything

[SUMOFISHIN]

There you go JUMPUS, you have been listening and learning.

[Fed]

Have a read Jumpy.
Applied Logic

How's your ring?
What is the height of your breather compared to the height where it enters your fuel tank?
Do you get water in both tanks or only one?
How well is is your deck filler sealed to the deck?

If you can't find a leak anywhere then we should firebomb the servo for selling water as fuel.

[hustler57]

hmm, im of the idea that the water came from the servo, every sercie stations fuel storage tanks underground have got water in them, and if they say they dont then they are flat out lying, i have always said and always will say be very carefull where you buy your fuel from, and thanks to caltex for the discount fuel ouchers im affraid its just gong to get worse, but thats another topic for the future ,

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Well what can I say Ed ?

Except that guy who wrote that crap David Pascoe is a Big Moron

The internet is full of gooses like him voicing their opinion & I only skimed what he had to say cause it was giving me diareah.

I'll tell AGAIN there is no possible way water could've gotten into the tank on it's own accord it was either pumped from the bowser or it's condensation.

I've already stated I have a sealed floor in my boat & alloy retains heat very well now let mme ask you a simple question

What happens if you have say a air conditioned room with a large window & all of a sudden a heat wave comes through your glass is single sheet not vacum sealed twin glazed.

Will you or wont you see condensation running down the glass ???

Mate I built commercial refrigeration for a living & know more about condensation than than twit David Pascoe

[Spudly]

you have had Alot of jobs in your many years jumpy.... what else have you done!?!?

(im not doubting you here, its obvious that you have had alot of experiance in many things simply by the work you do on your own boats and home)

Back on topic, A friend of mine drives fuel tankers, has done for many years, he might be able to shed a bit of light on th topic, as could our resident chemists on site. I might put this to them and see what they come up with.

[Fed]

That would be good if you can get one of those chemists RDNR, I don't think Jumpy will ever believe he has got it wrong.
I'll say it again, to condense a gas into a liquid you COOL it.
Air conditioners, refrigeration,.... the gas is COOLED in a condensor to change it into a liquid.

A simple test, pull a stubbie out of the fridge and watch the water condense on the outside of the bottle.

I've never said I don't believe in condensation inside fuel tanks, it's the 3 litres of water that condensed out of a 150 litre tank that I can't swallow.

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Ed I dont think you've read anything I've said or you haven't understood it ??

I'll run throught it again

Originally I said that I thought the water came from the servo @ that time I'd drain around 1.5 litres out maybe 2 & that was done on the day the motors stopped out on the water I gave up after that cause I didn't know how much more was in there & just ran the freshly filled tank.

Last Sunday I finally got around to draining the remaining water out as per pic theres around 2 litres of water in that jar so total we're talking around 4 litres

Mind you I never ever claimed all that water was condensation & still believe it came from the servo it was STEVE.P who said it couldn't have come from the servo not me.

I merely resposded to your claims that you cant get water in your tank via condensation & gave you examples of how H2O can tun into water after all thats what it is water ! & certain temperature conditions yes H2O will turn into water & since water in liquid forn is heavier than air it will sink to the bottom of the tank.

Like I said on numerous occaions there is no possible way water can get into my tanks via rain etc you can come down & have a look for yourself if you dont believe me

A simple test, pull a stubbie out of the fridge and watch the water condense on the outside of the bottle

Thats exactly what I've been trying to tell you heat against cold will cause condensation & it can occur inside the tank my hull is sealed & can get pretty hot in there I always leave the bung plug out to air the hull same can be said about the fuel tank breather lets the tank release pressure & thats why I never leave tanks full I 've fuel pissing out of the breather on a hot day with full tanks.

Still dont & wont know how much fuel is in that tank till I fill up next time I'm sure there's over 100 litres in there now if had a few really hot days & that fuel level rose up near the breather outlet aren't you compressing the air in the tank ??????????????????????

[Fed]

Just to be clear...

1) You cannot condense 3-4 litres of water from 150 litres of air as that would make 150 litres of air weigh 3-4 kilograms.
2) The chances of getting 3-4 litres of water from the servo would be very small to say the least.
I'd be interested to know exactly how the fuel is picked up in the servo tanks...anyone?
3) If you had 3-4 litres of water in your tank then go and figure out where the leak is.

[Spudly]

I beleive tanks at petrol stations generally pickup from a floating pickup on the surface level in the tank?

Jumpas, what if you used som kind of water seperator on th breather? im trying to think how to explain what i mean, Umm, Some kind of filter to stop the moisture coming into the tank as it breaths?

Like some people run on the diff breathers on 4x4's?

Ummm, ill keep thinking and get back to ya

[Spudly]

May I add, the best way to avoid condensation in the tanks is to keep them full..

[Spudly]

Water gets into your gasoline via condensation. That condensation might happen within your car tank or within the tank at your gas station or even from the tanker that brings the water to the gas station.
Condensation forms when warm moist air is cooled down. For example, when you drive your car on a warm moist day, then the warm air is sucked into your gas tank as your car uses gas. Then at night when the car cools off, if the temperature drops below the dew point of the air in the tank, then water will condense from the air into the tank, hence into the gasoline.
This same mechanism accounts for water in the fuel tanks at the gas station or tanker truck.
By the way, it is a bigger problem for airplanes. Also for an airplane water commonly gets into the fuel tank via rain water that leaks into the tank around loose fitting fuel caps.
For your curiousity, the density of water is much greater than that of airplane fuel. So everytime before you fly a plane you check for water in the tank by draining fuel/water from a valve at the bottom of the tank.

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Not even going to bother replying to Fed's theory about a leak cause there isn't one

Nor his other theory that you candense 3 - 4 litre of water because you can.

Ed if you choose not to believe in condensation thats fine with me but I recall back @ SF you were inquiring how water got into your fuel tank maybe you should check for leaks

Rum you hit the nail on the head & it's what I've been saying all along condensation only occurs with temperature change wont just happen like that in my case the boat hadn't been used for some time & who knows when I actually filled up that tank last with these 4 Strokes they use bugger all fuel & I could get up to 10 + trips out of one tank if I'm only fishing in the Bay or local.

By the way, it is a bigger problem for airplanes

Depends on which airplane your refering to the turbine engine jets use a kerosine mix not petrol like we do & yes they would be subject to a hell of alot more condensation temperatures up there drop well below freezing point in order for controls not to freeze up heaters are used to thaw out the ice

[Spudly]

there not my words, but ill happily take credit, Its off one of the Fuel company pages.

[Fed]

Ed if you choose not to believe in condensation thats fine with me but I recall back @ SF you were inquiring how water got into your fuel tank maybe you should check for leaks

I believe in condensation it's just that I don't believe it's causing your problem because 3-4 litres is too much.
My fuel problem was stale fuel not water in the fuel no water was found when I drained the tank.

One thing I did find though was that lifting the front of the trailer/boat up as high as it would go enabled me to drain an extra 5 or so litres out of the tank which is not normally retrievable under normal operating attitudes.
That gives me a huge water trap in the bottom of my tank so that's a good thing.

Are we having fun yet?

[Jumpus GooDarus]

OK I'll see if I can convince you one last time this is fair dinkum & I'm not pulling your leg either.

Going back prob 7 years now same boat sat idle @ my workshop for about 2 1/2 yearss mind you it was inside & out of any rain I mentioned them earlier back then I had 2 above floor tanks each held approx 130 litres they were made out of stainless.

I also had one underfloor which held 140 litres & another which held 100 litres reason for so muchfuel was back then I used to fish the Canyons off Pt Stevens & it's a bloody long way out esp back then with the 2 strokes they chewed the fuel on a flat day with the hammers all the way down.

Anyways the reason the boat sat there unused for so long was because back then I had the big moored boat, one day I decided to take it out for a run the above floor tanks would've been about over 1/2 full got to the ramp & they wouldn't start quick check found water in fuel to be the prob bled the carbs & it was easy to drain the water from the tanks being above floor just had to undo the clamp holding fuel fitting to hose & with the boat using the angle of the ramp it just gravity drained out.

Each tank had approx 15 litres of water in it filled nearly 2 10 litre bucked out of each tank

[Fed]

It probably rained before you put the boat under cover for 2½ years, or you used the same servo.

You cannot wring 15 litres of water from 130 litres of air!

If it was possible to do that then we could use your tanks instead of building a desalination plant.

[poly]

yes u can fed if like most most boat owners it sits idle for a wile it builds condensation up to the point of trouble and in the masters case he has been working on that rebuild for so long he could swim in condensation for life so remember if u are not using them fill them.
it is a shame the over flow from the tank will stain the paint on alloy boats but that is the price u must pay for geting second best.

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Dear Mr Fed

Obviously my attempts to convince you that condensation does occur in fuel tanks has fallen on death ears even with the assistance of Professor Rumpy Dust N Ruckus who's valliant attempts to collect reliable information & data again fell on death ears instead you chose to take the word of a unreliable source some Dingaling called David Pascoe who most likely didn't even make it past primary school.

Unlike myself whom was educated @ The University of Beijing under the guidance of Professor I Te Chu a world renouned figure in condensation reseach, hence I came to the conclusion that you could only be one of those terrorist doodies so I ran your description through interpol & was surprised nothing came up.

At a loss as to your motives it then occured to me that you're one of those Greenies & I can only assumed your sole purpose in this thread is to convince fishermen it is safe to assume condensation dosen't happen &^ it is completely safe to run the motors on water.

But the peeps here aren't that silly & they know better, by the way that hole you are digging yourself into can only lead to one place ?

China

Where I'm pretty certain Professor I Te Chu will be on hand to greet you & give you a ride down to Tiananmen Square where some tanks will be on hand to give you a 21 gun salute

[Fed]

I believe in condensation it's just that I don't believe it's causing your problem because 3-4 litres is too much.

What part of that don't you understand?

I'm going to Bunnings today to buy a bigger shovel.... I'll be back.

Are we having fun yet?