Work Place Problem, A serious topic for serious responses! Options

[TomMc]

Hey
As some of you know i quit KFC after finding employment for another mob mowing there lawns around there office and house.
I have been working there for around 3 weeks+ and i havent been paid yet...
ive done everything right including givng them my banking information, they havent asked me to sign anything yet so im sure this means i am not i there books, covered by insurance and i probabley wont get casual loading.
When i first started i warned them about how i may have to take 2-3 saturdays off a month and they wherefine with that but now its a diffrent story and the boss said if you cant work saturdays im fired...
It gets a bit more dodgey here, there is a set of twins who started the same week as me who where told to leave there time sheets(sheets which get signed when you start and finish)at the office, so they left them there and the sheets where misplaced...
Does anyone have any advice for me?
cheers

[jasonb]

mate ring the boss and ask him straight ,,,,,

[Jumpus GooDarus]

THat sucks Tom

I'll give you the same advice I used to give to alot of my subbies who were owed by dodgy builders.


Stop working for them untill you get paid.

In your case because you're a minor I would take an adult with you [MALE ADULT] & go confront the boss.

You'll find the boss will be singing a different tune if an Adult is there.

Bugger the job mate you dont want to be working for a person who dosen't pay you on a weekly basis.

With all the juniors this bloke is employing sounds like he's up to no good & looking to wrought

Try that 1st if no luck post again & I'll put you onto the right authorities &let them deal with him.

[Bees Knees]

Tom, i have employed a lot of people with our business. We have always kept it honest with our lads. They have never missed a days pay.

Mate if the situation hasn't improved in a day or so and you cant get sound advice from family and friends. PM me and i can help you a little.

Not tonight though, i have to blow a few candles out.....

[TomMc]

Thanks for the advice...
at this point in time i will be asking him questions tomorrow if hes there, if i dont get suitable answers i guess i have no choice but to leave?
Also another question, he has a 1st year and i think a 2nd year apprentice there but there is rarely anyone who is fully qualified there working with them? and most after noons when i go after school its only those two there no one else... is this allowed?
Thanks again!

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Unless the laws have changed which I doubt.

Remember I've been retired for 7 years so not that up to date.

But an apprentice must be supervised @ all times & having a 2nd year surpervising a 1st year visa versa dose not count.

An apprentice as boring as it may be for the 1st couple of years is there to learn not be used as cheap labour & you cant learn unless there's a qualified tradesperson overseeing what you are doing.

Your boss will be getting an allowance of the government to train those apprentices & by the sounds of it all they are is cheap labour.

[It'l Do]

Tom,

Some good advice has been given.

1) ALWAYS keep you own records if you cannot photocopy your time sheet.

2) You need to see the boss (with an adult or 2 present), in private, and get paid for all the work you have done. Once paid you can make a decision if you continue to work for him.

3) If you want to continue to work there insist on written agreement (contract) of the hours you will work, when you get paid, hourly rate of pay, days you cannot work etc. Without it in writing, even a simple e-mail, you do not have a leg to stand on.

4) If you get no satisfaction with the boss and you believe you will get no repercussions ( I mean physical) go and tell the people you cut lawns for that you enjoyed cutting their lawns but unfortunately you cannot do it anymore as the boss is not paying his employees. Don't loose your cool, explain that the bank manager doesn't want sob stories he wants repayments. Thank them for the opportunity and wish them the best.

5) Have your parents report him to Workcover, Dept of Labor or any Government department that will listen. It sounds like he is not paying workcover and they usually act very fast. It probably will not help you get paid but it should make him think twice before taking advantage of junior employees.


Post up how you go.

[Spudly]

Hey Tom, If i recal your dad has a funky uniform that he should probably wear when ya go visit ya boss to sort it out...

Dont stand for it mate.. Plenty of people out there are more than willing to give young people a go.. Find somone who will look after you..

Personally, id get more outta making him suffer...

Had a rethink and deleted all my ideas for ya... probably bettter off not giving you any stupid ideas that are likly to get you in trouble..

This post has been edited by Rum Dust N Ruckus: Feb 27 2008, 07:16 AM

[Bees Knees]

Hi Tom, how did you get on with your boss???

[TomMc]

I got to work and went straight up to him and questioned why i hadnt been paid, he said it wasnt hes fault and hed tell hes daughter, he then went on to say he was to busy to talk and just told me what to do...
i went to work and just did my duties laid out for me...

[Bees Knees]

I got to work and went straight up to him and questioned why i hadnt been paid, he said it wasnt hes fault and hed tell hes daughter, he then went on to say he was to busy to talk and just told me what to do...
i went to work and just did my duties laid out for me...

Tom, you are getting fleeced. Is his daughter the pays clerk? There is no excuse for it.. Did you talk to your dad?

[jasonb]

well youll just have to see what happens now ,,if your not paid by monday ask him again

[Jumpus GooDarus]

No good asking him again jason & waiting.

Tomyou like many others in your situation are @ fault.

Reason being you let people like your boss get away with it.

Told you in my initial post not to attend any more duties untill such times as you've been paid else you'll get dragged in further.

Dont be scared of your boss there's plenty of jobs out there, carry on with this guy & he'll allways be owing you wages & thats not a good way to go about life nor is it to let people take advantage of you.

I'd rate you a fool if you kept on working there B4 your pay situation was resolved

[TomMc]

Yes BK hes daughter is the pay clerk.
Jason if i havent been paid by monday im tellin him where to stick hes job...
Jump my next shift is monday but ill be checking me bank account before leaving if he hasnt paid im ringing up and quitting...
If got another option here...
Sell me boat for more then what i paid and keep that money in the bank until augest where i buy a car... I can keep doing od jobs for diffrent people and hope i get enough...

[jasonb]

maybe ya should go back to kfc and ask for ya old job back

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Jump my next shift is monday but ill be checking me bank account before leaving if he hasnt paid im ringing up and quitting...

No dont do that let him fire you if he wish's to do so but dont quit.

You get better leverage that way

I still think you should confront the boss with an Adult present & dont believe that crap about his daughter being the pay master.

He's the boss & it's responsibility to ensure wages are being paid

Sounds like his bank balance isn't to healthy or he's a total nob either way not a good person to be working for.

[Sir Reel]

Sorry to here that Tom. There are some not so nice people out there. Don't let him get away with it. Ring the Department of industrial relations and employment. They will give you the right advise. When you and your Boss agreed to you having those Saturdays off, did you both sign a work place agrement ?( As this could help you.) Or was there a witness to this.

click here for dept. industrial relations & employment

Dont be scared to tell your boss you have spoken with Department of industrial relations and employment. and they said.... Also take a older person with you for suport. If it was me (and it has happened to me) I would be going in saying that if I wasnt payed I will not work, however be mindfull he may say there is the door, in that case your better off not working for them. If he cant pay you until pay day ask him for a advancement to help you get through.

Hope this helps?

This post has been edited by Sir Reel: Feb 27 2008, 11:42 PM

[jasonb]

why dont ya ring his daughter and ask her

[TomMc]

ok im gettin confused here...
lots of diffrent ideas floatin about...
I still think ill leave no matter what...
Jump gettin fired looks worse then quitting...
im confused!

[Bees Knees]

ok im gettin confused here...
lots of diffrent ideas floatin about...
I still think ill leave no matter what...
Jump gettin fired looks worse then quitting...
im confused!

Dont be confused... If he fires you, he needs grounds for dismissal to do it and he has to pay you what he owes you.
If you quit, you are walking away from any of your entitlements and it will be harder to get your dough


I just re-read your comment about quitting and understand now.
Sometimes the old sayings about being a quitter are not relevent mate. Nobody should be stood over or taken advantage of. But if you walk you will put the ball back in his own court

This post has been edited by Bees Knees: Feb 28 2008, 12:29 AM

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Jump gettin fired looks worse then quitting...
im confused!

No it's not worse

A boss has to give you a weeks notice if he/she intends to fire you & if they want you to leave on the spot then they have to pay you for that week

Visa/Vesa there's a law to also protect Employers

If you want to quit on the spot & not give a weeks notice then you owe your Employer a weeks wages

Which means if your boss owes you 2 weeks in backwages or if you have any holiday pay owing he/she can deduct an extra weeks pay from whats owing so dont get caught out let them fire you.

[poly]

ok im gettin confused here...
lots of diffrent ideas floatin about...
I still think ill leave no matter what...
Jump gettin fired looks worse then quitting...
im confused!

well i will put my two bobs worth in here.

tom no its not worse, it will give u the chance to go to the Department of industrial relations and employment. with a case for them to look at and respond to. so mate have a good think about what u wont to do and then do it.
u have some very good advice in this thread from j.g, sir reel and bees knees

tom is your dad in a UNION if so ask him if they will help and i bet they will jump on this bloke with the full fores of the law.

may i ask what type of industry u are in

[TomMc]

If i bring in anything like a union or whatever in then it drags it out whitch i dont want...
i sort of just want to end it and put it behind me...

[It'l Do]

Tom,

TAKE AN ADULT WITH YOU.

Just try and stay in his office/home until you get a cheque for the hours you have worked. Go tomorrow why wait till Monday.
The legislation is called the Truck Act. Have a read it is not that long.
DO not accept any excuses and I am sure he will have heaps of them. If he asks you to leave don't push it or you will end up with a trespassing charge.

Do not quit just DO NOT TURN UP.


Next time always get any job offer in writing even it is only casual work. Write it yourself and get the boss to sign it.


Good luck but I think you are getting fleeced.

[It'l Do]

May have missed earlier posts:

No it's not worse

A boss has to give you a weeks notice if he/she intends to fire you & if they want you to leave on the spot then they have to pay you for that week

Correct for a permanent employee but Tom is a casual and has nothing in writting.
Employer just does not roster/offer Tom any more hours/jobs. Advantage of hiring casuals but disadvantage is when they want to leave they just don't bother to turn up.

[Sir Reel]

HiTom
I completely understand where your coming from. Even if you do choose to leave. not turn up or whatever you decide to do, contact the department of industrial relations, while you get on with your life. Many people move on from their jobs before contacting the dept. Remember that if you don't do anything, he is just going to keep taking advantage of other young kids. The deptartment won't just look into your situation, usually they will look into the situation of all the employees in a business that has a complaint about it.
You won't just be donig yourself a favour, but you will be helping out all the others that are being ripped off by him. If you are on talking terms with any of the others, maybe you could recommend they contat the dept. also
Good Luck

[poly]

yep what sir reel said

[oz man]

I have just 3 questions what type of business is it and where.


As stated before he cannot in anyway or form leave a 1st or 2nd year apprentice unsupervised, that is a Federal offence under the Apprenticeship scheme and carries a large fine.
Also is the position casual or permanent and did you sign a WA form as that still is enforceable at this present time, and as someone stated only permanent are required to be given or give notice a casual can be dismissed on the spot.
As for your pay the law still states that it must be paid on the due date otherwise penalties can be enforced,and the due date is what has been agreed on your employment. eg Weekly, Fortnightly or Monthly.

Now for the 3rd and biggest question did he get you to fill out a Government tax and workcover form.

If not he is just doggey and I would take my loses and go straight to a Chamber Magistrate and see if I could file a claim in the small claims court which will cost about $20.00 and is added to his costs.This usually will get action and give him a bad name if your in a small town as most local reporters will pick up the story, but the magistrate will advice you which is the better way to take it.

[Spudly]

just cut ya losses and move on tom...

one day you will see his car/trailer in the street.. remove the caps of the tyre valves, put a rock in there and screw it back on...

Go home feeling satisfied that you got your revenge!

[poly]

one day you will see his car/trailer in the street.. remove the caps of the tyre valves, put a rock in there and screw it back on...

Go home feeling satisfied that you got your revenge!

ouuuuu thats not nice Rum, but i like it

[TomMc]

Oz thanks for that...
thats the best advice ive been given so far...
he hasnt mad me do any of those things... im goin into work today to pick up me original birth certificate, BSB and tax file number... ill do an hours work and ring them later saying i quit...
thanks to everyone whos posted...

[kkw]

Tom's original post stated that he got a job with a guy, mowing lawns. No apprenticeship etc. If he is a franchise (eg Jims Mowing) or a bona fide business, then he needs workcover etc. Just get your money from him Tom. He will try to rip you off, but dig your heels in and get whats due to you. If you quit and say 'shit happens' then this will be what you may do for the rest of your working life when you get screwed over. Stick to your guns.

[oz man]

Tom's original post stated that he got a job with a guy, mowing lawns. No apprenticeship etc. If he is a franchise (eg Jims Mowing) or a bona fide business, then he needs workcover etc. Just get your money from him Tom. He will try to rip you off, but dig your heels in and get whats due to you. If you quit and say 'shit happens' then this will be what you may do for the rest of your working life when you get screwed over. Stick to your guns.

I agree stick to your guns and a talk with a magistrate is free

[Spudly]

bugger all that, toms like what 16yr old?????

You dont need that crap in your life yet tom... move on..... if ya get your pay great but dont stuff around.. go find yourself a new job..

If you parants wanna follow it up then so be it, but at your age ya dont wanna start dragging crap like this on...

go and see a magistrate... thats just the start of a heaps of crap and wasted time for yourself for a small amount of pocket money...

go and egg his house and put shit on his doorstep and get a laugh out of it and let all these oldies worry about chasing it through court for a few dollers!!

[jasonb]

i agree with rum ,at toms age its not worth the trouble ,plus it dont take long to get around if he grags people threw court then he wont be able to get a job anywhere where he lives

[kkw]

Yeah I agree too - NOT. I know that I would be happy to work for someone for a month and not get paid. I could go and get another job and work for another jerk for a month and not get paid etc etc etc.

If the bloke is employing kids to mow lawns and not paying them for it, and getting a good turnover in staff, then he needs to face some consequences. I reckon if Tom's father knows about it and isn't helping Tom out, then there is a little more to the story than we have been told about. Tom asked for advice and he got it.

Would you work for a month and then be happy to forget about it when you didn't get paid, Jase? Rum? Age has nothing to do with it. You reckon because Tom is only 16, he gets to work for nothing? His old man should be doing something about it - I know I would be, and I'm sure you would be too Jason, if it was one of your kids.

What if you were promised a case of rum to do a months work, Chad and the guy wouldn't give it to you? You would snipe him with your 22/250.

[Spudly]

I said that toms dad should follow it up if need be, but tom doesnt wanna be chasing paperwork around and see courts..

I personally wouldnt bother.. Ive said what I would do! Prolly not snipe him, but id get him back somehow, i Couldnt be bothered chasing crap like that around...

[poly]

sorry RUM and JAS but i think u are wrong, there is a point were u must stand and fight for what is yours and to do less is to degrade your self. it is your call TOM.

[Spudly]

yea, i spose....

then he can write a letter to the council about the cracks in the foot path, and why stop there, start a protest over your pay and get the unions involved tom, Call kevin rudd up, complain abot the interest rates and tell him you want yuor garbage collected twice a week..

sorry guys, but it all sounds like a heap of oldies whinging with nothing better to do...

Its not over a great deal of money and I cant see tyhe point in Tom starting off somthing like this.. I just cant see it being worth toms time...

Sorry if it sounds like im calling yas a bunch of whingers, I really dont mean it to be offensive at all its just the way I see it, as a not that old bloke who has been through things like it before..

[kkw]

You're kidding Rum. So if someone came and stole 4 wheels off your 4wd, and you knew who it was, you would go and egg his house and not try to get them back legally? He would have stolen your property.

Same thing with Tom. If the guy doesn't pay him for 1 months work, he is stealing Toms wages??? What am I missing? There are no unions as such any more Rum. There are workplace agreements, and I would be surprised if Tom signed one which stated that he works the first month for free. I could be wrong though.

[Bees Knees]

Tom,

have you decided what you are going to do??

[TomMc]

I got paid $39 today...
The amount doesnt seem right since it was for aroud 3 weeks work....
But rum is right, i dont want to get into a big political fight over this as he knows alot of people in this town i live in...
I think its about time i cut my loses and leave...

[Jumpus GooDarus]

I agree stick to your guns and a talk with a magistrate is free

I dont agree

What's the point in going to see a Magistrate even if his service is free.

He can only guide you & his knowledge of the matter would be very limited, either way you'd still have to engage legal representation & that cost would far exceed the amount owed.

Tom you are far better of contacting Department of industrial relations and employment. as Sir Reel instructed you to do & let them prosecute your employer if need be.

But somehow I dont think your telling the full story & for the life of me dont know why you haven't approached your emplyer with an adult present, like I said you're not talling everything.

[Bees Knees]

I got paid $39 today...
The amount doesnt seem right since it was for aroud 3 weeks work....
But rum is right, i dont want to get into a big political fight over this as he knows alot of people in this town i live in...
I think its about time i cut my loses and leave...

Mate, you would have earned that a night at KFC.. Did you talk rates before you qiut KFC?

He doesn't own the town like Boss Hog does he??

[Spudly]

4 wheels of my 4wd are worth a SH!T load more than a month of toms wages.....

and No, i wouldnt go whinging to someone if i knew who took them.. Id get them back myself..

I really dont think Its comparable though...


Aside from my feelings, Tom has not entered any sort of agreement, The employer could turn it all arund on tom.. It not the first time its happened and could end up costing tom. There is obviosly no paper trail and a case will be hard to make against him. Besides, tom should not have started work in the first place without this all sorted which they are going to try and turn on him..

Again, I really dont think its worth the hassle... But thats just my opinion.

[jasonb]

yeah i agree kk ,but if this happened to one of my kids i would front the bloke myself ,,,,if i was 16 and it happened to me ide front the boss myself as well ,but that s me ,the boss could just say i told him it was 1 month trial without wages ,and what can tom do then ?tom have y talked to ya dad yet ?,,,,,

[Spudly]

Yea, if your going to follow it up, start by taking your dad with ya to see him, and like i said early on, get him to wear the blues...

Unless of course he is a mate of your dads or somthing twisted like that

[jasonb]

well if he was a good mate he wouldnt do it to start with ,,,,,,get ya dad to ring him and say he has been informed that a worker hasnt been paid ,,but dont let ya dad say hes your father ,,your boss will think you have contacted some one else about it ,,it may put the wind up him a bit

[poly]

,the boss could just say i told him it was 1 month trial without wages ,and what can tom do then

thats illegal JAS, if the boss tried that one u would have him on toast :o :o :o

[jasonb]

oh ok poly ,,how many hours did ya work in that 3 weeks tom ?

[TomMc]

Ok ill start off with Jumpy...
Departerment of industries would drag it out i could have a new job by then...

BK, yer thats about right id be earning that per night at kfc and they where organised with pay, i got pay slips the lot...

Jason, dads been busy with work latley but ill speak to him tomorrow... and also ive probabley worked over 13 hours...

[jasonb]

WELL THATS $3.00 AN HOUR ,,AAHAAAAAHH even the chinee get better than that

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Pretty sure the minimun hourly rate is $5 for a junior tom you'd know better than me cause places like KFC would be paying minimum rate.

$ 39 ???? no tax would've been witheld

[TomMc]

Jump its around 5.40 an hour plus around 1.20 casual loading...

[Jumpus GooDarus]

Not a bad guess on my behalve hey ???

Considering I've been retired for 7 years & never employed any juniors when I did work

[jasonb]

oh ya wanker ,,,,,

[TomMc]

Very good guess jump.